The Mk IVA Phoenix Terpenator

I just hate to waste good numbers, so when circumstances changed, that there was no longer any motivation to build the half completed Mk IV Chimera, I decided to create the Mk IVA Phoenix rather than complete the Chimera just for show.

I dubbed the Mk IV the Chimera, because it was built from parts of several other systems, and was an attempt to get maximum surface area for vacuum evaporation, using available 6″ sanitary spools.  At that time, a 6″ X 12″ spool, was the largest that we could obtain.

Shortly before completion, 8″, 10″, and 12″ X 12″ sanitary spools became available, so I canceled the project.

Hee, hee, hee, behold the Mk IV Phoenix, risen from the ashes of the Chimera and embracing everything that we’ve learned to this point.

This prototype has a 10″ X 12″ lower spool and a 4″ X 36″ column.  I put that size column on it for a January shoot out in Seattle, but it will accept anything from a 2″ X 24″ column up to a 4″ X 36″ column.

One of the things that we’ve learned and which has been addressed in the Mk IVA, and that is that stainless to stainless threaded fittings can be problematic, so the IVA uses welded manifolds, rather than manifolds assembled out of pipe fittings.

It has two sight glasses to monitor what is going on, and has a thermocouple in the tank, to monitor the internal temperature during processing, in addition to a JB compound pressure gauge.

While this is about the largest practical unit that can be horsed around, we will be adding a 304SS cart anyway, to carry the pumps and 100# recovery tank, as well as the Mk IVA on casters.

A Haskel Model 59025 pneumatic refrigerant pump is on order for our prototype, and due in January, so timing will be close.  We chose the Model 59025 because the pumping chamber is separated from the air piston by enough space, so that if a seal blows, dirty air can’t contaminate the butane stream, with the meds in it.

The system has ports to either recover or vacuum the columns separate from the chamber, and can accept up to three recovery pumps, as well as a separate vacuum pump port, so multiple electric pumps can be run instead of the pneumatic Haskel, which takes a 10 hp screw compressor to run.

Sooooo, here tis!

Mk IV Chinese prototype-1-1Mk IV valves-1-2Mk IV manifolds-1-1Mk IV flooding head-1-1

Mk IV Prototype valves-1-1Mk IV Prototype valves-1-2Mk IV Prototype-1-3Mk IVB certification diagramMk IVB certification list 1Mk IVB certs list 2

59 responses to this post.

  1. Posted by Jason on September 20, 2016 at 6:18 PM

    what’s between component #23 and #29 it is also between #29 and the hose to #1, it is in pictures not diagram. where might one find manifold #23. Ive checked glacier tanks, terpextractors accessories,

    Reply

  2. Posted by hashslurpee on August 16, 2016 at 8:08 PM

    what is the purpose of the yellow valve located across from the injection valve?

    Reply

    • It allows you to recover the column separately, which comes in handy once the recovery pressure is below ~12/15″ Hg, so as to be able to heat the column and drive out the LPG, without sending heated LPG down through the collection pot, where you may be making “Cotton Candy”, and need more precise temperature control.

      GW

      Reply

      • Posted by hashslurpee on August 25, 2016 at 1:53 PM

        Is there any other information you would be willing to provide on creating a “cotton candy” consistency. I have a Mk III and MkIV both with biflow but currently without the necessary duel port shown on your machine. Assuming I did have one, what conditions/ process is necessary to create a cotton candy consistency.

        Reply

        • Once the visible butane is gone, and only random bubbles are seen, turn on the high vacuum pump and inflate the remaining oil and butane mixture into a foam. Continue to pump with it inflated, until it solidifies in that state and stays rigid when you back fill.

          GW

          Reply

  3. Posted by Andrew on February 16, 2016 at 2:23 PM

    I’m thinking about assembling one of these using a 4″x36″ column, and an 8″x20″ collection pot topped a special end cap reducer lid from glacier that is 8″ in diameter, with tubing that extends 8″ down into the collection pot. I was wondering if the combination of the pot diameter and the length of the lid tubes would allow for smooth operation without flooding the recover pump. Let me know thanks!

    Reply

    • Posted by Andrew on February 16, 2016 at 2:28 PM

      EDIT: combination of the pot dimensions*
      (Not diameter)

      Reply

      • Posted by Andrew on February 16, 2016 at 3:41 PM

        Also, at what size point is it necessary to switch from single hinge clamps to high pressure clamps? (Sorry for multiple posts)

        Reply

    • I would suggest longer down tubes. Port velocities are pretty high when the pot is still under positive pressure, and dropping the liquid in the rapidly moving vapor stream, is likely to entrain some of it. I design my tubes to reach within about 2.5″ of the bottom, with a gas vent opposite the pump port, so the column can dump when the pot covers the bottom.

      GW

      Reply

  4. Posted by ben walker on September 11, 2015 at 8:04 PM

    Hi guys lovely product i was wondering if you had enough room height could you build this to strip 10 pound at a time .
    Would you need a bigger collector/bottom spool
    i am a small time fabricator /fitter and a customer wants me to build one of these systems

    Cheers ben

    Reply

    • Your limitation is the lower pot size. A 10″ pot with 8″ of liquid in it, would be about 628 cubic inches of working space. A 10 lb column would ostensibly be around 1107 cubic inches and a three volume flood and flush would be around 3321 cubic inches.

      Reply

  5. Posted by Rob on April 20, 2015 at 7:08 PM

    Hello im Rob. I’m trying to build one of these but im having trouble finding the lid and a few other parts on glacier tanks site?I’ve also seen two site online with modified versions of your master piece. Emerald science and terpp extractors.is their anything I should know or change before ordering parts?or do you have any new designs coming out soon I should wait for?

    Reply

  6. We are starting to sell the Mk IV’s and have been working with them for a while. We have upgraded the vent lines to SS PTFE hose, and our 10″ gaskets are flanged (which save a lot of hassle.) We find a 1″ dump valve to be faster than a 2″ valve. Really there is a bunch of configurations that can help you achieve different results.

    We will be opening a store in Redding, CA this August. In the mean time you can order or schedule an appointment at http://www.emeraldscience.org

    Reply

  7. Posted by Frazier on July 17, 2014 at 11:16 AM

    Is there a parts list available for this unit yet? I really want to take a swing at making this thing a reality

    Reply

  8. Posted by Mark on February 19, 2014 at 5:18 PM

    Does the Haskell replace both the recovery and high pressure pumps? Haskel literature appears to infer that it does. Checked Haskel (http://www.haskel.com/Haskel/en/Products/Pneumatic-Pumps/Refrigerant-Pumps) website and wondering if you are using buna seals option? Also curious on the cost a one a those babies…

    Thanks for all the great work,
    ~M

    Reply

    • Posted by Mark on February 21, 2014 at 9:44 AM

      I’m interested in building a modified version of this. I’d like to go with a 6″ x 36″ column, and same recovery tank as the MKV. Or double up on the 12″ x 12″ spools, just stack them. Gonna fill the 4 concentric reducers (2 x 6″ to 4″ and 2 x 4″ to 2″) as well. I’m 6’5″, not too tall for me. Ordering parts now. Going with the Haskel pump too.

      Been doing a lot of one solvent winterization. Butane only, as our patients complain about the vodka like taste of the two solvent absolute. We’d been distilling and re distilling ethanol, and doing lots of winterization. In fact one of our freezers is dedicated to it.

      But lately we’ve been using butane only. just using vacuum assisted filtration, bacterial filters, butane and oil in solution. I was trying to figure out a way of super chilling the butane in process. So we could do the whole thing with the terp and our vacuum ovens.

      Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated.

      Thanks in advance,

      ~M

      Reply

    • Yes Buna and ptfe options. They cost about 2k plus a 40scfm air compressor. I would still use a regular vacuum pump to remove atmosphere prior to operating.

      Reply

  9. Posted by Nick on January 24, 2014 at 11:02 AM

    So is this design basically the same as the mkiiia but with a different size column and recovery tank? Are the rest of the parts the same? Or have more changes been made than just column size and recovery tank?

    Reply

  10. Posted by Don on January 14, 2014 at 4:37 PM

    just wondering if you have parts list on this bad boy……I can’t wait to give it a shot….have you ran yours yet….

    Reply

  11. Posted by errlizer on December 30, 2013 at 10:21 PM

    what size air compressor will you be using to run the haskel?

    Reply

      • Posted by Don Wilhelm on January 19, 2014 at 8:33 PM

        Thanks for getting back to me, I will get what ever size you call for, I have the Tami 700 now and it works great but it won’t keep up with the patients in our collective so I need something bigger….I paid 7500 for the 700 but that was a lot and the 3000 they have which runs apx 2lbsis 27k which is crazy and way out of our reach. I have been following the info on your website and can see you have as good or a better product and I can get the welders and machine shop set up no problem. And if you can speed up the recovery time that would be awesome.Please let me know what I need to get started and if parts list is available, and again thanks for taking the time to get back to me. Don

        Reply

  12. It is a thing of beauty. Do you think that pump will be accepted as hydrocarbon compliant? I have been looking at similar pumps, but also other mechanically driven and intrinsically safe vac pumps that might do the job.

    Reply

  13. Posted by mat on December 8, 2013 at 9:05 PM

    Will you be posting a parts list and lid machining diagram for this unit?

    Reply

  14. Posted by icdog on December 8, 2013 at 7:36 AM

    I’d like to build one. Does it need the 2 sight glasses? Looking to a parts list. Is there a list showing how much material each different size column uses?

    Reply

  15. also how much will a 4″ X 36″ hold? -is there a equation to figure

    Reply

    • So there is a anchor point to calculate from, we set our standard at 4.1 grams per cubic inch, for 10/15% water content prime bud, reduced to 10 mesh, and all the stems removed. We use that process for our cancer meds, which are subsequently decarboxylated and formulated, so appearance and monoterpene retention aren’t of prime concern.

      Prepared mixed trim is closer to 3.8 grams/cubic inch, because it has less oil.

      10/15% water content is about where them material is no longer leathery, and just frangible when rolled between the finger and thumb firmly.

      Stuffing whole buds for bragging rights extractions, packs even less, so you have to just experiment.

      We use a ram close to the diameter of the tube, or in the case of 3 and 4 inch tubes, about a 2″ ram. We pack about every 6″ and press firmly until the material stops moving, but don’t use hammer or percussion to pack it more firmly.

      Reply

  16. Are the transitions between the 2 sight glasses NPT 1/4 female to on both ends? or is it a bigger size?

    Reply

    • The FNPT threaded 1 1/2″ sanitary end caps are 1/2″.

      The vent down tube in the tank is also 1/2″ NPT, but the vent tube itself is 3/8″. It is bushed to 3/8″ at the valve.

      Reply

      • Ok thank you SP. Im seemingly doing this ‘Phoneix’ build, but with a 12″ x 12″ recovery tank and a 4″ x 36″ material tube. Ill keep you updated

        Reply

      • Posted by hashhash on November 3, 2016 at 10:36 AM

        why not use 1/2 inch steel tubing?

        Reply

        • It needs to be stainless steel tubing, but you could use 1/2″ throughout. This is pharmaceutical and food grade product, so the equipment needs to be corrosion resistant and easily cleaned.

          The WW Mk IVC uses 3/8″X.035 wall and 1/2″X.049 wall 304SS tubing on LPG circuits, and 1/2″ X .035 wall 304SS tubing for chiller circuits.

          The heavier wall thickness is required for 1/2″ LPG piping, not because it isn’t strong enough, but because it is thin and more likely to have a through wall manufacturing flaw. 3/8″ is still at .035 wall.

          We used coiled 3/8″X.035 316 SS tubing on the liquid N2 circuits, instead of hose.

          GW

          Reply

  17. Posted by Kevin on December 7, 2013 at 5:04 PM

    Looks fantastic. Can’t wait to hear how it runs. Keep up all the great work.

    Reply

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