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The Mk III Terpenator

Those of ya'll who have been following our progress with the Mk I and II Terpenators, as well as the Lil Terp passive extractor and Enabler compound fractioning still, will be interested in our new Mk III Terpenator, based on the Lil Terp chassis.

This is just one more configuration possible with the Lil Terp tanks, simply by changing out the modified lids and bolting on readily available parts.

You will note that the collection tank is a simple 6" X 6" sanitary spool, with a standard end plate and clamp for both top and bottom.  We laser cut and machined new bottoms for the first Lil Terp series, but that is not necessary starting with a 6" spool.  The top plate is the only piece in the whole assembly, that is not standard off the shelf at either Glacier Tank, or at Paramount Supply.

This picture is a mockup of both Lil Terp and Mk III Terpenator parts, but I will post the final assembly with the correct parts, when they arrive back from the machine shop and welder.

The column shown holds about two ounces, but the system will accept longer columns.  Cycle time is unknown until we run trials with our prototype, but with the same sized pumps and smaller volumes, we are expecting it to be faster than the Mk I, which processes about half a pound per cycle.

Here is the lid maching detail.  I'm also replacing the long Tee for butane injection, with a more petite one made from a short reducing spool and a 1/4" 304SS nipple.  I'll post pictures when I get the pieces back from the machine shop:

Here is a preview treat of the Mk IV layout mockup, which also has parts out for machining"

Hee, hee, hee, the Mk III parts are back from the machine shop and ready to be welded.

10-3-12

Lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  It lives!  The Mark III lives!

Hee, hee, hee, here is the purdy lady and her butane storage tank complete and ready for testing!

10-3-12

Lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu, whoop, whoop, ahwhoooooooooooooooo!! Hee, hee, hee, snicker snark snort..................

The Mk III worked and ran like a Formula I on the Appion twin, and actually beats the throughput of the Mk IA, albeit with a column change in the middle.

Not counting the first cleaner load running leaf, I ran five column loads, of three different strains and material grades, and they weighed from 135 to 200 grams, all packed in the same 1.5 X 24" column.

The thing that is mind boggling after running the Mk IA, which will process about 470 grams per hour of prime bud, is that although the Mk III has a column capacity 33% less than MklIA, it processes it through the same number of cycles in 12 minutes.  It therefore can run four cycles per hour, vis a vis the Mk IA's about 25 minutes per cycle, or two cycles per hour.

That is not counting the 5 minutes hard soak at the end of a series of runs of the same strain, which both the Mk IA and III add on to a series, but not to each cycle.

The Mk IA processes about 470 grams in two 235 gram cycles, in the same amount of time that the Mk III processes about 600 grams in 4 cycles.

The Mk III is actually so fast using the Appion, that the pressure gauge on the first reclaim cycle, looks like the minute hand on the clock as it falls.

The second flood and recover cycle is not quite so fast, as more butane made it through the second cycle, and the third is of course the long one, because it is evaporating butane out of the now open column as well.

As I don't have column heat on the Mk III test sled, the columns iced up on the last cycle, which was slooooow compared to the first two, so I will add column heat.

That was the only time available to stuff the next column, because the other cycles are happening too fast to not pay close attention.

Peak operating pressure in the Mk III ran about ten psi higher than the Mk IA, at 45/50 psi, compared to the Mk IA's 35/45 psi.  All well within the component pressure ratings.

The only thing that didn't go very well, was my picture taking, with most of the equipment in mixed shadows under a tree, but got one  that demonstrates the point.  Alas no good oil shots, as the light wasn't suitable for in the pot and we washed it out with ethanol for winterizing.

I promise to do better with the pictures next time and will report the yields after winterization is complete.

One thing that we did do, that departs from the original plan, is to use a 50# refrigerant recovery tank, instead of our fabricated one, to speed thing up with its greater condensing area and lower price.

Here is the parts list and costs.  I will try to get a more finite breakdown on labor, with the next build.  The total included building a storage tank as well and extra set up time for a single run, so ostensibly future labor will be less. Mk III Terpenator parts list

NO ITEM PN REQ PRICE COST Source
1 1/4" 316SS tubing/.035 wall     $0.97/ft $3.88 Paramount Supply
2 1/4 NPT to 1/4" Compression 304 SS 4CM4316 2 $6.8 $13.60 Paramount Supply
3 NPT 1/4" female X 1 1/2" triclamp end cap 304   1 $10.95 $10.95 Glacier Tank
4 Triclamp 1.5" High Pressure Clamp Bolted   4 $9.95 $39.80 Sanitary Steel
5 1 1/2" X 24" Sanitary spool piece   1 $45 $45 Glacier Tank
6 VITON Gasket 1.5"   2 $1.95 $3.90 Sanitary Steel
7 BUNA Gasket 1.5" N/A 2 $20.95 $41.90 Sanitary Steel
8 BUNA Gasket 6"   1 $5.95 $5.95 Sanitary Steel
9 1 1/2 X 1" Sanitary concentric reducer   1 $12 $12 Glacier Tank
9.1 1 1/2" sanitary X 3/4 ball valve   1 $25 $25 Glacier Tank
9.2 1/4" X 4" 304 SS Schedule 40 nipple  1/2 used   1 $1.41 $0.71 Paramount Supply
9.3 Modify by machining   1 * * Moody Machining
9.4 Weld   1 * * Gibson Welding
10
 
  3 $12.95 $38.85 Sanitary Steel
11 1/4" JIC 37 Degree Male Flare x 1/4" MNPT 304SS   3 5.95 $17.85 Sanitary Steel
13 1 1/2 X 12" (1/2 of) sanitary spool   1 $35 *$17.50 Glacier Tank
14 End Cap 6"   1 $28.95 $28.95 Sanitary Steel
14.1 Modify lid by machining   1 lot * * Moody Machining
14.4 Weld   1 lot * * Gibson Welding
15 TriClamp 6" High Pressure Clamp Bolted   2 $38.95 $77.90 Sanitary Steel
16 3/8" 304SS half coupling   1 $1.20 $1.20 Paramount Supply
17 Hex Nipple 3/8" MNPT x 3/8" MNPT 304SS   3 $6.95 $20.85 Sanitary Steel
18 4 Way Pipe Cross 3/8" FNPT Female Pipe 304SS   1 $23.95 $23.95 Sanitary Steel
19 Hex Nipple 3/8" MNPT x 1/4" MNPT 304SS   2 $7.95 $15.90 Sanitary Steel
20 Hex Nipple 1/4" MNPT x 1/4" MNPT 304SS   4 $7.95 $31.80 Sanitary Steel
21 3/8" 2 piece Stainless Steel Ball Valve 1000# 304SS   1 $12.95 $12.95 Sanitary Steel
22 3/8 MPT X 3/8" male flare brass   1 $0.76 $0.76 Paramount Supply
23 1/4" X 7" 304SS nipple/Threaded one end   1 $4.32 $4.32 Paramount Supply
24 6" X 6" sanitary spool from 6" X 12 spool   1 $105 *$52.50 Glacier Tank
25 Tank bottom laser cut to size   1 $32 $32 BBC Steel
26 Tank bottom machining   1 * * Moody Machining
27 Weld tank bottom inside and out   1 lot * * Gibson Welding
29 Total materials       $492.88 Materials only
30 Actual machining and welding labor       $180 Labor only
31 Total cost to build       $672.88  

* Breakdown not available.  Use actual lot costs for total

** 1/2 left over for a potential second unit.

10-20-12

Progress has been made!  I set up an aerospace quality manufacturing network to build Mk IIIA kits, and we licensed manufacture and distribution to Specialized Formulations, who now has a sample lot of five Mk IIIA lid and injection tee kits being machined and welded, to the latest design.    http://specializedformulations.com/

The Mk IIIA design differs from the original Mk III, from the standpoint that the 3/8" half coupling was replaced with a 3/8" nipple and the cross assembly welded in place to clock it properly and eliminate two threaded joints.

The Mk IIIA design also incorporates a 6" X 6" sanitary spool for the lower tank, as opposed to splitting a 6" X 12" sanitary spool and welding on a new bottom.  The new arrangement uses a tri-clamped end cap for a bottom, which costs less overall and allows easier cleaning.

The Mk IIIA can use either passive heat and cold techniques for recovery, or a refrigeration pump to reduce cycle time to less than 15 minutes, as with the Mk III.

1.0 Glacier Tank          
1.1 NPT 1/4" female X 1   1/2" end cap 304SS 22MP-6025 1 $10.95 $10.95 Glacier Tank
1.2 1 1/2" Sanitary   triclamp MHM-150 4 $5.90 $23.60 Glacier Tank
1.3 1 1/2" X 24"   Sanitary spool piece SP-150-024 1 $45 $45 Glacier Tank
1.4 1 1/2" Teflon sanitary   seals 40MPG-150 2 $1.20 $2.40 Glacier Tank
1.5 1 1/2 X 1" Sanitary   concentric reducer B3114MP-C150-100 1 $12 $12 Glacier Tank
1.6 1 1/2" sanitary X 1"   ball valve BV-2CV-100 1 $69 $69 Glacier Tank
1.7 1 1/2 X 12" (1/2 of)   sanitary spool SP-150-012 1 $35 *$17.50 Glacier Tank
1.8 6" Sanitary tri clamp 13MHM-600 2 $29 $58 Glacier Tank
1.10 6" X 6" sanitary   spool SP-600-006 1 $97 $97 Glacier Tank
1.10.1 Or 6" X   12" sanitary spool (cut into two 6") SP-600-012 1 $120 *$60 Glacier Tank
1.11 6" Sanitary end cap 16AMP-G600 2 $42 $84 Glacier Tank
1.12  Total in Mk IIIA configuration       $419.45  
   In Mk III configuration       $382.45  
1.0 Special Seals          
1.1 1 /12" Buna N sanitary   seals with screens N/A 2 $15.90 $31.80 Brewery Gaskets
1.2 6" Buna N sanitary seal W181663 2 $14.92 $29.84 Sustainable Supply
1.3 Total       $61.64  
             
1.0 Tank Bottom blanks required only for Mk III, not the MK IIIA          
1.1 Tank bottom laser cut to   size   1 $33.50 $33.50 BBC Steel
1.2 Total       $33.50  
NO ITEM PN REQ PRICE COST Source
1.0 Paramount   Supply          
1.1 1/4" 316SS tubing/.035   wall 3405630 4' $1.07/ft $4.29 Paramount Supply
1.2 1/4 NPT to 1/4"   Compression 304 SS 4304913 2 $7.56 $15.12 Paramount Supply
1.3 1/4" X 4" 304 SS   Sch 40 nipple/ 1/2 used 3406164 1 $1.57 $1.57 Paramount Supply
1.4 1/4" Ball valve 3492303 3 $12.41 $37.23 Paramount Supply
1.5 1/4" MPT X 1/4"   Male flare brass 1719939 3 ~$3 $9 Paramount Supply
1.6 3/8" X 3" 304SS nipple   cut in half   1 ~$2 $2 Paramount Supply
1.7 3/8" X close 304SS   nipple 3406253 1 $1.37 $1.37 Paramount Supply
1.8 3/8" 304SS cross 3449726 1 $7.41 $7.41 Paramount Supply
1.9 3/8" X 1/4" 304SS   bushing 3408515 2 $1.16 $2.32 Paramount Supply
1.10 1/4" X close 304 SS   nipple 3406105 1 $1.14 $1.14 Paramount Supply
1.11 3/8" 304SS ball valve 3492311 1 $14.88 $14.88 Paramount Supply
1.12 3/8 MPT X 3/8" male   flare brass 1719980 1 $0.93 $0.93 Paramount Supply
1.13 1/4" X 6" 304SS   nipple/Threaded one end Special 1 $5.33 $5.33 Paramount Supply
1.14 Total       $102.59  
NO ITEM COST
1 Glacier Tank $419.45
2 Gaskets $61.64
3 Paramount Supply $102.59
4 Total parts $583.68

1-22-12

Terpenator Operating Instructions

The Terpenator series are operated as follows:

1.0       Open all valves, except for valve #4, the butane supply valve.

2.0       Turn on high vacuum pump and pump system down to -29.5"Hg.

3.0       Close valves #1 and #3.

4.0       Turn off high vacuum pump and turn on the recovery pump.

5.0       Place one hand on the vent line exiting the top of the column and turn on valve    #4.

6.0       When you feel the sudden chill of liquid butane reaching the vent tube, close  valve #2, and then valve #4.  Record the number of seconds required to flood the column with the existing packing density.

7.0       Continue to pump with the recovery pump, until the internal pressure is reduced to -10"Hg.

8.0       Open valve # 2 and valve # 4 for the same number of seconds that it took to flood the column the first time.

9.0       Close valve #2 and then #4 and continue to pump, until the system pressure is again reduced to -10"Hg.

10.0     Repeat steps #8 and #9 for as many cycles as you choose to run.  Typically three cycles for the Mk IA and II, and five cycles for the faster Mk III and IIIA.

11.0     At the end of the last cycle, when the gauge hits -10"Hg, open valve #2 and then valve #3 to dump column.

12.0     Continue to pump until the system reaches -22"Hg, at which point close valve #5 and turn off the recovery pump.

13.0     Open valve #1, and turn on the high vacuum pump.

14.0     Pump the system down to -29.5"Hg and close valve #1.

15.0     Shut off the vacuum pump and allow the system to sit under hard vacuum for 5 minutes to purge.

16.0     Remove product from lower collection tank.

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571 Comments

  1. Ryan B

    Dan, When deviating from design it's up to you to decide what operating parameters your going to run with and then making sure components exceed with safety factor. I am not a licensed engineer, and this is why extractor designs for market are certified by one. A third party whom will double check your math and materials to confirm you can use the device within the limits you intend to operate. Yeah your life is willing to take the risk. But the Public is not and didn't ask for it. Proceed at your own risk and if you do your homework like I mentioned earlier you will determine your own answer. So many of these diy go boooom and you read about them in the paper and on the news. Anything that could go wrong, will.

    Reply       Edit
  2. Ryan B

    Dan, No disrespect but you need to learn the properties of butane pressure to temp differential. Learn butane by volume and weight. You cannot safely build one of your own unless you can answer some of these fundamental questions. You can get the answer from a calculator but can you show your work as to how you came up with the answer? If you cannot accomplish this please buy a prefab system that has a certified procedure to run with. Regards, Ryan

    Reply       Edit
    1. dan

      The reason I asked was there is an extractor design on this webpage that uses a paint pot rated at 110 psi. Another build used triclamps raited at 100psi.All the research I have done indicates that butane as a liquid will have little or no pressure. As the liquid warms it turns to a gas and increases in pressure. From my research I see most extractors operating around 30 psi. In addition, the method of opperating a top flood passive closed loop have been very well documented.

      Reply       Edit
  3. Rey

    I am currently building this setup and wanted to use two 2'x24 columns similar to how the MKV is setup. Basically this would be a mini MKV. Would the bottom chamber be from the MKIII be big enough for those columns?

    Reply       Edit
  4. KillaVolt

    Are there any videos showing the complete operation of a Mk 3? I don't fully understand the process of whats going on inside with the fill, drain, wash. Basically I'd like to know the flow of the fluid inside the unit. I understand it's filled from the bottom up and then the top vent and fill valves are shut off....but then what?

    Reply       Edit
  5. c

    Appion G5 ? = When doing the seal rebuild is there another source for the hard plastic seal on the piston? The one that goes over the 0 ring on the piston. I ruined one trying to get it on the piston and would like to not have to buy a whole new kit just for one of the hard plastic seals. thanks as always. stay warm friends.

    Reply       Edit
  6. spooneyluv

    We are having further problems with valve leakage. This time, we are seeing small bits of oil coming out of the large 1.5" ball valve (#3), or the "dump valve". This is on top of having major issues with butane leakage from the normal valves, even when they are new. Have you seen this issue with the large dump valve before? What do you recommend to fix the issue, replacing the valve or cleaning it out?

    Reply       Edit
    1. skunkpharmresearch

      I infer that we are talking about leaks at the valve stem, in which case I have seen leaks at the stems on both types as received and pressure tested, but except for one occasion, was able to seal it by simply tightening the packing gland nut. On that occasion, it was the large three piece dump valve from Glacier, and I returned it. I've also seen valve packing wear out, requiring repacking or valve replacement. The one piece valves are under $20 each from Paramount Supply, so we just replace them, and the whole reason for the more expensive three piece valve, is that complete rebuild kits are available for them. Have you taken the handles off all the valves and tightened the packing gland nut yet?

      Reply
  7. c

    n last on the column heast question is , Is this stuff comparable to the tape from Platt ? http://www.homedepot.com/p/Frost-King-60-ft-Roof-De-Icing-Cable-Kit-RC60/100187093#.UpQyANKsiSo thanks.

    Reply       Edit
  8. cooper517

    GW. hello brother and i hope all is good with you, i am still struggling on my returns somewhat but have got improvement and thanks for the help. well long story short u know us men are hard to keep happy and want to try to be the best we can at what we do, so i was wondering bout the terpinators here would they give me a better return using this vs a glass column? i have been reading but their is so much its hard not to jump around and read a little of everything. but i was interested in the returns on the terp. thanks for taking the time to read and give help.

    Reply       Edit
    1. skunkpharmresearch

      We average between 20 an 25% return on prime bud and about half that on trim, with the best run 28.1%. We averaged closer to 18/20% before hand, unless we dumped and repacked a couple of times and our best run was 21.6%.

      Reply
  9. Classico

    Good evening again. I've got a hopefully quick question for you all. We've got an extra Appion and recovery tank laying around. What I'm thinking of doing is filling the other tank with butane, and connecting the inlet lines to a tee, and the output from the machine also through a tee back into the two pumps. The idea being that running them in parallel would surely increase the speed of recovery. I Should mention we're running a 3 inch four foot column, so the speed increase is highly desired. Thanks ahead of time for any advice.

    Reply       Edit
    1. skunkpharmresearch

      Pretty hard to control which tank the butane goes to when they are teed together. We tee two pumps into one 100# tank on the Mk V and it works OK, but haven't tried into two tanks. If you try it, please report back, and do watch the tank weights after recovery to insure that one isn't overfilling.

      Reply
      1. Father Earth

        When Teeing two tanks to the G5 make sure the hoses are the exact same everything(length, diameter, ball valves etc) and the the tanks are in the same ice bath. The temps must be the same or it will effect how they fill. Also if you leave the vapor ports open and connected to the G5 , and they are the same temp the butane/ pressure will equalize on its own given enough time. Before you store or transport the tanks weigh them to be sure they are in the safe zone and below 80% capacity. I leave my tanks vapor valve open between days when connected to the tee'd system. so that any pressure build up is shared between tanks before I weigh them and put them away for storage. Our system is used everyday so this is the reason for leaving them open. Currently running two MKIII's on one G5 with two tanks, everyday for a week now with no troubles.

        Reply
      2. Classico

        I shall absolutely report back, still waiting on a few parts. I weigh the tank after each run anyway to keep track of any possible losses of butane, so I'm not terribly worried about an overpressure, if this turns into a concern I might affix an inline gauge to each tank and adjust the pump valves accordingly.

        Reply
  10. tylerdurden71

    for the guy who experienced high temps... your system is clogged at that spot and the heat is a result of pressure building up. probably because the butane can't get past that blockage. immediately dump your column and reclaim so that you can fix the issue

    Reply       Edit
  11. Ommp Payit Forward

    Processing with the MkIII The easy part for me was the simple machining & welding it took to get a bullet-proof MkIIIa assembled together (although buying the parts piece-by-piece took me over a year). No leaks, right out of the gate. I cleaned out a light film of mystery oil after loading up the system with 5x. Ran a couple loads with a 12” tube. And WOW…..it’s a thing of beauty, and I do not see any petro indications under a black light. Sweet! But alas, my shining mechanical aptitude has been trumped by my ignorance of alchemy. My first goal is that sinfully tasteful BHO that has some flow to it. Mine has a nice color, but seams too waxy and has no flow until warmed up. Process used- Collection pot kept at 115-120 degrees during extraction. After extraction, the same 115 degrees held for 3-4 hours under -29.5 hg. Then kept at -29.5 overnight at room temp. Questions related to oil for vaporizing- What should I use to wash the walls of the collection pot? Can this oil be reclaimed? Is there more processing that needs to be done after the vacuum purging to get to more of an oil? Thanks in advance for any advice on this. http://freemygreenpdx.com/index.php?/topic/7762-mkiii-processing/

    Reply       Edit
    1. skunkpharmresearch

      We clean out pot walls with 190 proof ethanol and reclaim both the ethanol and the left over oil. If you want a looser oil, crank up your collection pot temperature. For maximum oiliness, keep it at boiling and to retain the extraction as carboxylic acid shatter, don't use any heat.

      Reply
  12. Lk

    Is it possible to run the mk III with a 2" column with a 1.5x2" reducer on both ends? Or, would I need a 10"x10" collection tank on the bottom to compensate for the extra volume?

    Reply       Edit
      1. Kyle Moretti

        Would a 12"W x 24"L recovery tank/storage tank be fine for a material tube of 48"x36" ? and still be fine for liquid butane in the tank with no aspiration issues?

        Reply
          1. Chrispi

            Question. Building a bigger Version. i would like to run 6 inch tubing that is 36" in length. how big of a recover vessel will i need?

            Reply
            1. skunkpharmresearch

              Assuming it is sanitary tubing and is 6" OD, a 36" length would hold about 935 cubic inches. I like to keep at least 6" between the bubbling pool and the pump intake, so if it was a 12" OD lower tank, it would have to be about 15" tall.

    1. Classico

      Yes, it's what we do, only with a four foot, 3 inch column. I should mention though our recovery vessel is a two foot spool and not the same size as designed.

      Reply       Edit
  13. Gonzo Farms

    First a huge thank you to the whole Skunk Pharm Research crew. You information is a blessing. I have been want to go the route of making a MK III and was for budget reasons hoping to go in stages, starting with a more or less standard passive pass through column system. Assuming that the solid end capped is machined to receive the butane nozzle and I place coffee filters on both ends of the column does this look like a function setup: Qty Item Price 1 TriClamp 1 1/2" Sanitary Tubing Spools 18" Length 1 TriClamp BUNA-N Screen Gasket 20 mesh 1 1/2 " 2 TriClamp 1"-1 1/2" Single Hinge Clamp HD 1 TriClamp End Cap 1-1 1/2" w/1" Cut out SS304 1 TriClamp End Cap 1/2"-3/4" SS304

    Reply       Edit
    1. skunkpharmresearch

      You need two gaskets, whether they both are screened or not. Not sure what you are planning with the end caps??? I use one with a female 1/4" NPT hole in it and it would be easy to bush down to injector size. If the bottom is where you are planning the 1" cutout, it should work if you will pack a couple of coffee filters on top of the material, before putting the screen in place. I would do so on both ends, so as to help diffuse the incoming butane and guard against blowing back particles, if you release the injection pressure by moving away the can.

      Reply
  14. wcscoop coop

    Hi, Apologies if this has been covered (and it probably has and I just haven't found it...) Is it necessarry to have the column completely filled with dry material? Or can it be safely operated partially filled? Our cooperative does 20+ varities- some just as trials or on the request of patient members with specific needs, and we would prefer to keep all extractions single varietal rather then potentially having to mix to fill the column completely, or, more to the point, having to build at least two different size tubes to maximixe the machines usefulness.

    Reply       Edit
      1. tylerdurden71

        i've run half tubes and just used two sets of 4 10-12 cup filters crumpled up and packed well onto the top of the material. the filters will move, but you shouldn't get any material past them.

        Reply
  15. tom

    You guys parts list is a little off, but i got all my parts and Mark3 all put together and pressure tested. Ready to do my first run. Wish me luck.

    Reply       Edit
    1. skunkpharmresearch

      304 or 316 are both suitable. I purposely kept all the material in contact with the medications stainless steel, but PTFE would be my first choice for plastic, in this application. The diagrams should work for the lid and injection tee, which are the only modified parts.

      Reply
    2. david

      Hi Tom, I'm still putting mine together, my goal with the list was to find errors, do you mind pointing out what mistakes were made? You would be doing me a great favor :) Thanks, David

      Reply       Edit
      1. david

        Question, it seems like everyone has a gauge hanging by their columns, where is that gauge from? i don't believe it is on the parts list.

        Reply
        1. Manny

          This is touching on what I am seeking. I too experienced better shatter through an open blast than in a closed loop. After seeing a second unit do a run which had pressure gauges, it seems to be that the combination of vacuum in recovery unit and pressure in the gas tank are the key in dialing in the best and cleanest texture of shatter. Question, is the pressure necessary specific to the closed loop system being used or is it universal and the same vacuum and pressure combination will work in all closed loops.

          Reply
      1. r0kud

        Been running the Terpenator for about 3 months now. I will take the Pepsi challenge against glass open air runs any day! ;-)

        Reply
      2. Father Earth

        lol, you are doing it wrong. Get you frequent terpenator miles up, then come back with my open tube is better line. I promise with some practice you wont miss your glass tube...

        Reply
    1. skunkpharmresearch

      You can pick up the plumbing parts at Paramount Supply and the threaded end cap from Glacier Tank. Specialized Formulations would probably put one together for you, if you asked. Try specializedformulations@gmail.com

      Reply
  16. c

    Can I put filter driers on the intake line coming off the butane tank safely? I would like to ensure NO H2O gets into the system. As in wetter material and the effect on future batches if the inline vapor filter gets wet. thanks.

    Reply       Edit
  17. Beau Paul

    Hey there SPR, just want to start by saying thank you so much for all your guys' hard work. You've really changed things for the better. Anyway on to my question. I just got my MkIIIA kit assembled and ready to do pressure testing and an old trim run to get everything cleaned and in proper working order. As it just so happens, I have a number of other, off size sanitary spools from past extractor projects (a 1.5" x 18", and 2 1" x 36") and I would like to use them all on my terpenator. I did a little looking around and found this PTFE-lined, stainless steel braided hose http://www.amazon.com/Unisource-Stainless-Braided-Pigtails-Pressure/dp/B0063LVHZ2/ref=pd_sim_sbs_indust_1 I went ahead and ordered one as there was only 1 left so I grabbed it. I am wanting to use this hose to replace the rigid vent tube, so I am able to swap in any size column without having to also swap or adjust vent tubes. Does this seam feasible? I figured since it was PTFE-lined it would be safe with butane, and at 48" long, can accommodate any reasonably sized column. If this hose isnt suitable for this purpose, I am sure I can find another use for it somewhere :)

    Reply       Edit
      1. Kevin

        Hello GW, I am also considering purchasing a PTFE lined hose to replace the 1/4" SS hard line. I spent a little time on the unisource site looking at the different PTFE lined hoses. While doing this I noticed that they sell a style that has a carbon additive to the lining designed to make it conductive. This is to avoid static build up while pumping certain fluids which can then arc through to the SS sheathing causing the hose to fail. Is static build up a concern with pumping butane? If so, is it ok to use the one with the carbon since it comes in contact with the medicine? Thanks for all the great information.

        Reply
  18. Mr. Trick

    I've been running the MkIII since july now and have started having issues with my Appion pump. I think the bottom line is that I should have used a filter drier all this time cause I'm suspecting that I might have pulled oil into the pump. For some reason it's not pumping all the butane back into the 50# tank. Instead it keeps a considerable amount of it and after about a minute from turning off, it starts hissing gently and I can smell butane in the front left vent of the Appion. If I turn the pump back on for just 5 seconds and turn it off again, the leak stops but starts again after about a minute. I unplugged the hoses from it and was messing around with the valves when I noticed that it started spewing out butane from the left (blue) valve when the valve was turned to 50%. It stopped when I turned it up or down more. It only spews butane when the valve is turned to 50%. Why is there so much butane left in the Appion? If I have contaminated my Appion pump with oil, can I fix/rebuild it by buying replacement kits? Which one? Do I also have oil in my 50# tank in this case? How could I clean that out? Ready to order a filter drier.... my bad for not so earlier on.

    Reply       Edit
    1. skunkpharmresearch

      You can rebuild the upper end of the Appion with parts from Century Tool, or others. I run with both valves wide open on the Appion and use the valves on the Terpenator to control flow. If you have oil in your tank, and run it through a Terpenator, it will take the oil out.

      Reply
  19. Classico

    Good evening, a friend of mine said he filters his n-butane through activated carbon, however upon trying this after packing the column with the carbon we got no noticeable flow. Then we took off the top end cap and discovered some sort of reaction had taken place, with the upper column becoming very hot. Can you both tell me whether filtering the butane is a good idea, and possibly explain why the heck it got so hot?

    Reply       Edit
    1. skunkpharmresearch

      Not sure what kind of carbon you used, but coarse prills work better than a finer grind. Not sure where the heat would come from. Nothing in the activated charcoal, or that showed up on the butane analysis, that would appear to cause that reaction. Sounds like a missing third piece of information. We haven't tried post fractional distillation filtration with charcoal yet, and are leaning toward bentonite clay, zeolite, or ditomaceous earth for final polishing.

      Reply
    2. Holden Oversoul

      Recently experienced the same reaction. I even took photos of my laser thermometer pointing at the column. I filled the 24" column with Pro-carb activated Carbon. I assembled and configured the Terpenator exactly as I would for a normal run. Pro-carb says on the label "lab grade", FWIW. Ambient temp was 73 F, as expected, the bottom of the column became cold when injecting the butane. Meanwhile, the top of the column got hot and was reading 89 F.

      Reply       Edit
      1. icdog

        A friend gave me a emerson ek303 filter drier that has 3/8 flare screw fittings. Will this one work? I can't find a direct pic of it online, it is pretty big.

        Reply
  20. icdog

    Can anyone list some alternatives to the parker 303 and Ek032 MF or EK084 MF filter driers. I'm trying to find some on ebay and there are many different models and brands. Will basically any filter drier work as long as its the correct size?

    Reply       Edit
  21. Guthrie

    Hi GW, I'm trying to find an effective way to add heat to the columns. I've found a couple options and would appreciate your opinion if they should work or suggestion of a better alternative. 1. Insulation and heat tape - place thermostatically controlled heat tape along the length of the column, cover the tape in 1/2 inch foil faced fiberglass blanket insulation, secure with duct tape and plug in the tape. Total cost should be $20 per column. If I could find a means of making the insulation easily interchangeable between columns or at least removable with out having to duct tape it together again this seems like a decent solution. 2. I found a company, Powerblanket, that makes gas cylinder heaters for controlling temperatures of propane, butane, nitrogen and other compressed gases. The website claims its products have been used by railroads whose propane became to cold to vaporize and is extremely energy efficient. I like this option because it the cylinder covers easy to put on or remove and would do a better job than me making sure the columns are heated evenly. They sell a 2" by 10' pipe heater for $169 so I am hoping the column heater would be around the same price. Thanks again for your help, Guthrie

    Reply       Edit
  22. Vince

    Hey GW, I am using 12" spools rather 6" for my recovery pot on the MKIII, thinking that it would help minimize the chance of oil getting into the recovery port. However I have noticed accumulation of oil on the underside of the lid near the recovery port! Because your original design called for 6" spools, I am thinking that I must be over-filling the recovery pot with butane during the process. Even when I use ~7 second flood cycles, I still see oil on the top. Any suggestions on how I can improve this? I can imagine that these kind of questions must be super elementary to you so I really appreciate that you take the time to respond! Thank you so much. LV

    Reply       Edit
      1. c

        "Opened the vent valve to fast"? What do you mean by this = What is the vent valve? Is this the valve controlling flow back into from the 1/4" TUBE FROM THE TOP? and what is "too fast"? I would of thought the oil was collecting on the top because it was unheated and hardened up there. curious as I usually get a very lil bit there also and just figured it was due to no heat available to keep it liquid.peace n thanx

        Reply
        1. skunkpharmresearch

          The vent valve is the valve between the 1/4" vent tube in the top of the column, and the lower tank. Open it slowly means look at the pressure gauge when you open the vent valve and bleed the pressure off slowly, rather than abruptly, because abruptly blast the pressure that has built up in the column, through warming of the butane, into the pool at the bottom of the tank, blowing oil in all directions.

          Reply
          1. c

            ah ha, another learning curve for not making it to a class yet ahwell,makes sense as I look at it that way. Thanks again as I am thinking my sidewalls will NOW bw much less messy to clean off.

            Reply
          1. honeyrx

            Ah, I didn't know about the reasoning behind opening the valves slowly but I saw your explanation to "c", very helpful! I did a run today opening the vent valve slowly but I guess it still wasn't slow enough. Will try even slower next time keeping the principles you explained in mind. When doing a flood cycle, should the butane valve also be opened very slowly too to prevent a huge surge of butane from flowing down the vent tube? Also I was wondering how essential it is to open the vent valve first during cycles and the final dump? Also, would simultaneous opening/closing be more ideal than sequential?

            Reply
            1. skunkpharmresearch

              The butane flow won't surge, because it has to filter through the material in the column. It is important to open the vent valve first, to slowly equalize the pressure, if you want to minimize internal cleanup. That said, the system will operate opening the two valves in any sequence.

  23. David

    Hello GW, Let me just say wow, you do/know so much I'm blown away by the level of information you and your associates have made available. That being said I'm having a bit of a hard time consuming all of the information and retaining only the most recent/relevant information. As I read through your comments I see people talking about finding parts here and there, and about how Glacier Tanks now carries some parts they did not. I tried putting together a shopping cart following the latest of the parts lists you've made available but some of the parts just are not listed, either by part number or by searching through the inventory for the correct part. Also a lot of the parts are not in stock. For example the 12" and 24" spool for the column and the 6" spool for the tank. I realize it is a lot to ask but would you by any stretch of chance be able to make a new parts list? I'm sure I'm not the only one who would benefit from this. I would like to make an MKIIIa with a sight glass and I currently have none of the required parts. Normally I would study the material more and try to pull my way though but I currently have about 10 lbs. of trim that is ready to run. I need to process it asap. I completely understand if that is out of the realm of your ability at this time but I thought I'd try. As things are I am already in your debt for all of the information you've made available for everyone. Thanks, David

    Reply       Edit
      1. David

        Thank you so much GW, Will it be posted here? I ask because I don't believe their website is finished yet. I'm sure the community would appreciate it being made available here, but would I be better off emailing them to get it sooner? I am hoping to assemble one as soon as I can as you know ;) or am I on my time crunch still better off trying to figure out the missing pieces on my own? I and the community thank you, David

        Reply
        1. Beau Paul

          I too was having a hard time locating these parts, as Glacier Tank seems to be out of everything we need! Found this place thanks to Father Earth, looks like they got the goods :) I just ordered a bunch of extra tubes for my MkIIIA http://www.brewershardware.com/Extension-Tubes/

          Reply
          1. skunkpharmresearch

            Good site! Kudos to Father Earth! That is where we originally got the screened gaskets, before Glacier Tank agreed to stock them for us. They don't have the selection that Glacier does, but are one of the places we go for items that they do stock, when Glacier Tank is out.

            Reply
          2. David

            Yeah it looks like they have a lot of the parts we will be needing, some cheaper than glacier tanks, I've sent GW a list I believe has sourced about 99% of the parts we need so hopefully we get something official put up soon. Can't thank you guys enough.

            Reply
          3. david

            I've been in contact with brewers hardware, apparently they have a ship full of the parts we need awaiting x-ray due to customs being shut down as a result of the government shutdown so no idea when their shipment will actually come in. Also it looks like glacier tank does not have the welded on bottoms in stock anymore either and I haven't been able to find a source of 6" spool shorter than 3'. I have placed an order with brewers hardware for the 6" end caps but as it is held up I could maybe order 8" caps and try to get some 8" spool from glacier tanks, Is there anything I would need to worry about when changing the diameter of my collection vessel? And out of curiosity why would the Viton seals be required around the sight glass while only the PTFE are required on the rest of the column, don't they all use the same triclamp/triclover fittings? Wouldn't they all be exposed to the same amount of pressure? Would you be able to explain the need for the upper end rebuild kit? Or link to something that would explain it for me? Would you not recommend a used tank due to contamination issues or because of safety? And lastly while looking over that list was there anything you noticed that I missed or anything else I will need besides butane? thank you for your immense help in this, David

            Reply
            1. skunkpharmresearch

              The 8" spool would give you more surface area, so it would be faster with the same size column and have more capacity for larger columns. It will also take longer to recover, using the same size pump. We use Viton on all of our seals, because PTFE takes too much pressure to reliably seal. I suggest Century Tool for parts: 1-866-277-0888 http://www.centurytool.net/ I don't want to eat out of something that was used for lawrd knows what, so I always get a new nitrogen filled tank. Hoses, valves, fittings, PTFE gas line tape. We like JB Kobra hoses for the purpose and Paramount Supply for the plumbing stuff.

          4. david

            I've found a single 6" x 12" spool, would it be possible to just leave it its 12" length without complication? Would it just make collecting the oil out of the bottom more difficult?

            Reply
          5. david

            Hey GW, I'm starting to get my parts in the mail! Its exciting putting it all together. I've made a mistake though. I ordered the 36" column and a sight glass but made the oversight of only ordering 4' of SS tubing for the vent tube from paramount supply. When I went to order a longer piece they said they would only be shipping them in 4' pieces and charging $31.00 shipping for my $7.00 order. I don't think I will be ordering my vent tube from them. I've been looking around at other options. It seems I can source 304 SS tubing especially welded in loo of seamless pretty cheaply. My question is would it matter if my vent tube was 304 or welded or do I need to find a 316 seamless tube? I'm also looking at flex hoses as I'd like to have the flexibility to use various sized columns but they are very pricey. What would you recommend? Also I did order a 12" x 6" spool for my collection vessel. I'm about to send the lid parts out for fabrication. Are there any modifications I might want to make so that it is more conducive to my taller spool or should I just follow your diagrams? Thanks for all your help along the way, David

            Reply
    1. tylerdurden71

      sadly glacier is out of stock till the next container comes in about 3+ weeks and most of that is already sold out too. if you don't order from glacier now, you don't get on the waiting list, and the waiting list is long already and they get first dibs. paramount has in stock for all their stuff. because waiting a month or two for parts probably isn't in the cards, i'd look at brewery websites. they sometimes call their tri clamp parts tri clover and they are interchangeable. the part number for the sight glass gasket upgrade is sgp-100-viton

      Reply       Edit
      1. David

        Awesome thank you, would I still want the 24" column with the sight glass? It seems like it might be easier to get my hands on pieces that are either longer or shorter for the column and collection tank, would I need to worry about changing any of these dimensions if I wen't changing the diameter of anything? Thanks, David

        Reply
        1. David

          Do you have an email address I could talk to you though? I have sourced what I believe is all you need from current sources. Would you be willing to look it over or have SF look it over to let me know if I've got it all right or am missing anything? I would post it here but I'm not sure the comments is the best place for it due to length and formatting.

          Reply
        2. skunkpharmresearch

          You can use up to a 1 1/2" X 36" column on the Mk IIIA and still have capacity for a 6" sight glass. Make sure the sight glass that you use has seals compatible with butane and is rated for at least 120 psi.

          Reply
  24. c

    It wouldn't let me reply where you posted it last but No chance of oil in the appion as we got the filter on its intake so,,,,,,,,, I'm still thinking that if it wasn't because we left it hooked up the whole time it was because are heat source couldn't keep up with the temp when the column got dump[ed and then did a lot of dry running well the heat came back up. I did take the time to call mathew in Colorado though and had a wonderful convo with him on the pump from the UK, def the way I want to go when I can afford it. As always thanks for the info , I'm gonna just take the appion down and see what is in need before I order the kit. If its just the seals kit its only $80 so,,,,,,, easier for us right now than the full $250 onward thru the fog peace

    Reply       Edit
      1. c

        thanx I will let you know when I open it up. I am working outside so I am waiting for this next dry spell to see what's up. I am also thin king I burned it up quicker cuz I didn't have enough gas in the tank for some of the runs so,,,,,,,,

        Reply
      2. c

        fan clutch destroyed itself. I think it was because I may have pumped some liquid butane through it because of not heating the collector pot enough. Holds pressure good and seems to pump fine. Guy at the store in eugene actually GAVE me a new fan unit for free. Blessed Be! Anywho any problem running a 12" x 6" bottom? How much bigger could the top column safely become with the lager collection vessel? peace c

        Reply
        1. skunkpharmresearch

          With a 6" X 12" column, you could run far larger columns that you could efficiently recover, because of the limited surface area ratio to depth. The lower tank holds about 26 cubic inches per inch of depth. You can fill it up to about 6" of the pump intake with out flooding the pump, but it would be highly inefficient.

          Reply
  25. Veg N Out

    Hey GW, looking to move my setup indoors since it's getting colder. Looking to do a 10x12 shed, curious if ~4100cfm of ventilation (2000in and 2000out) using explosion proof axial fans will be enough to keep the space safe? Works out to almost 4 air exchanges per minute..

    Reply       Edit
  26. Veg N Out

    GW - How's it going ? I have another run to report, same Triangle Kush material, I weighed it this time. Just under 160 grams of whole nugs packed in to the 1.5x24 tube put 40 grams in to the collection pot. I couldn't/didn't scrape up every last gram and swiped 36 on to parchment. Takes me about 60 seconds to flood the tube with whole nugs running frozen tane and ambient temp water bath , also I never see over 20psi, is this a function of running ambient temp water? I remember in class that soup pot was pretty hot

    Reply       Edit
    1. r0kud

      Veg N Out, Some of the trim I've been packing at 2.7 grams per cubic inch has been taking over a minute to flood (~ 1:20 sometimes). However I've been running the 1.5 x 36" colum versus a 24" column. But for the most part I'm seeing the flood travel about 1.5" - 2" per second with a 15% yield and pressures hardly over 40#. The soup pot is kept around 120F.

      Reply       Edit
  27. MK III Terpenator:Skunk Pharm Research - BreedBay

    […] rn rn rnrn rn The Holidaze came early this year for our little Family rnrnrnrnSkunkPharmzrnrnStill waiting on the recovery pump rnrnrnMuch, Much more to come, stay tuned Y'all […]

    Reply       Edit
  28. spooneyluv

    Hi GrayWolf, Thanks for all the advice this past summer. We have been running the MKiiiA since June with good results. I am hoping you can offer some advice on our current problem: We usually get yields around 15% from trim, and have gotten as high as 18%. However, lately we have seen a marked drop in yield to 5-9 %, despite using high-quality, sorted, fresh, properly dried and cured trim, with a good amount of bud, shooting for 25% moisture content. I believe this might be a result of a mishap: the blue knob on the recovery tank was left open overnight, and the tank was empty a few days later when it was checked (kept outdoors, under sun cover). We had only about 4 lb of butane in there. Upon discovering that the tank was empty, I injected 24 cans of butane via the vac line, as you have described on the site, and I have safely done many times before. After the fact, I realized that I should have pumped out the recovery tank before re-filling it with the 24 cans, but I ran some washes anyways. The "column injection time" (to feel the cold in the capillary line) increased from the usual 6-9 seconds to a whopping 20 seconds. Additionally, the pressure after the 20 seconds was extremely low, around 12-15 inches, where it is normally in the range of 30-45 inches. This was not due to column packing density, as I varied the density and the ~20 second-column injection time and the low pressures continued over the course of another 15 columns, and it did not improve. This ~20 second-column injection time and low pressures coincided with the low 5-9% yield I mentioned earlier. My thought was that I have air and/or propane in the tank, and I should burp it, like you suggested in the forums. I tried this burping after cooling the recovery tank, and initially for maybe 2 seconds, there was some gas released, but very quickly it began spraying liquid butane, so I stopped the burping. Then I ran some test washes and the above problems persisted. I think the problem is with the recovery tank/butane, and the Terp is fine. I thoroughly washed out the Terp and the columns with IPA and that did not solve the problems. What do you think? What should I try? I also wanted to ask you if you guys typically blast multiple tubes into the same recovery pot? What is the best process for this? How many tubes/how much oil is too much to extract into a single pot? Is there any concern for quality loss doing this? We've been washing about 8 columns into a pot and recovering maybe 100+ g. Thanks so much for the help

    Reply       Edit
    1. skunkpharmresearch

      The vapor line shouldn't be spitting liquid. Have you weighed it to see how much butane do you have in the tank at this point? I would check the pump for leaks, by closing the outlet valve, while leaving the inlet valve open. It should pump up to about 500# and shut off. If you leave it in that state, it shouldn't cycle. It depends on the material, but 6 or 8 columns per tank is about our limit.

      Reply
      1. spooneyluv

        Oh, I think I burped the tank on the liquid line, not the vapor line. That makes sense. I will try it the right way this week. I have weighed the tank, we have something like 7 lbs of butane in there.

        Reply
          1. spooneyluv

            Ok, back with an update on our work. We tried burping the blue vapor line, and butane came out immediately. Just to be sure, we burped for a couple minutes. The burping did not solve the symptoms of long injection times (~20 sec) and low injection pressures (~15"), but it did lead to a reasonable recovery in yield, up from our low of 7.8% to 11-12%, but we couldn't be totally sure that the increase in yield was due to the burping, because the material was different. We thought the two symptoms mentioned above may be due to running the tank at a low butane level, so we injected another 24 cans of butane to take it to about 12-14 lbs of butane. This also did not correct the symptoms, but our yield continued to get better, now around 13-14%. So perhaps the symptoms aren't worrisome, but I sure would like to know why the injection time and pressure isn't like it was during our first 2 months of running. On the last 2 days of running last week, we noticed that the butane recovery rate during use was dwindling fast. For example, we used 1.5 lbs of butane for 8 columns on Monday, and by Friday it was 3.75 lbs used for the same number of columns, doing the washes the same way each time. Clearly, the Appion is not recovering properly (the recovery tank holds the butane overnight without loss). Also, we are noticing a butane odor from the exhaust vent of the Appion, and it was stronger today than last week. Today I tried to fill the tank with 10 lbs of butane using the Appion to recover it into the tank (as usual), and we only got 4 lbs into the tank. I tried the leak test on the Appion recommended by GW, where the outtake valve is closed and intake is open. He said the pressure should build to 500 psi and then the Appion will automatically shut off, and you can listen for leaks. However, when I tried it, the pressure did not build at all beyond zero, and I had it on for 1/2 hr. So we are now obviously shut down looking for answers and ideas, and of course a replacement Appion and/or a rebuild kit. Help? Any suggestions? Thanks

            Reply
            1. skunkpharmresearch

              Was the intake valve open, without a hose attached to it, and the exhaust valve closed? It won't build pressure if the intake is under vacuum. You should smell no butane odor, ever, so if you are, I suspect a leak in the pump.

  29. sunset ltd

    re the 3/8" evac hose coming from valve #5: the vapor port on the G5 is only 1/4". the same goes for the reftec and emmerson filter dryers you use. i need a 3/8 x 1/4 flare reducer, yes? and if i'm reducing to 1/4", aren't i effectively reducing the flow in to the appion to 1/4"? at that point, what benefit do i derive from using 3/8" hose instead of 1/4"?

    Reply       Edit
  30. Veg N Out

    Hi , I have ran my MKIIIA 7 runs and have developed a leak in Valve #4 (Butane Supply Valve) , the valve iced over and I could smell gas.. I have the blue handle paramount valves that are supposed to be rebuildable. Can you please describe the rebuild/tightening process? Do I just take a ratchet to the nut on the 1/4 turn handle and tighten it down?

    Reply       Edit
  31. tylerdurden71

    I developed a lead in my g5 recently. spoke with their tech support and they said that recovering butane will lead to the seals failing in 1-3 months. i believe a complete seal rebuild would run under $100. what he suggested was running a thimbles worth of refrigerant oil (mineral oil) through the unit with both ends open to help lubricate things and extend the life of the seals. since you are blowing the oil through the g5 without any hoses attached, i'd imagine the amount of oil being introduced into the system when running the terp might be negligible. with all the noise the g5 is making, you might not realize it is leaking either. anyway, thoughts GW?

    Reply       Edit
    1. skunkpharmresearch

      There is a simple test for leaks with the Appion, and that is to open the inlet valve, and close the exit valve before turning it on. It should pull up to about 500 psi and shut off automatically. You can then listen for leaks and cycling from leaks, should the pressure drop below the safety switch setting from leakage. The upper end kit is actually $230, and we don't recommend lubricating the seals as the butane is a lubricant itself. We burned out the first seals in under a week, trying to recover every last drop of butane, but after the first rebuild we stopped recovering at -22" Hg, and have over a year on the original pump.

      Reply
      1. tylerdurden71

        the tech guy gave me specific part numbers for just the seals, but i didn't see them listed at trutech. although the butane might lubricate, the guy seemed to be saying that the butane would dry the seals out due to them not being rated to handle it. isn't this a similar situation to you guys not using certain seals on the terp due to them not being rated for butane? i suppose the guy could have been blowing things out of proportion, but it kinda makes sense. i also don't reclaim anything close to -22 as we run our system cold. it could be that there was a pre-existing issue with my unit? is your concern with lubricating with mineral oil that it might get into the final product?

        Reply
        1. skunkpharmresearch

          I have two concerns. The first is that if it isn't broke, don't fix it. We've had very good luck overall with the Appions and haven't needed to lubricate the seals. The second is that anything that you put into the pump will end up in your medications. Better to replace seals occasionally.

          Reply
          1. c

            So question is the seals the only thing to replace or do you need to get the piston and all as in $230 compared to $80 for just the seals? I ran one for about 3 months on and off and need to replace something as it doesn't pull to 22 anymore and makes a HELLOFALOT of knocking only sometimes. I am thinking it burned out faster because of low operating temps on the collection pot. or did it happen because I kept the pump hooked up the whole time? Thanks as alwayz!

            Reply
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