About

Hi ya’ll!  Graywolf here to welcome you to Skunk Pharm Research LLC!

Our new start up company and this site are just starting to come together, so please bear with us and we will do our best to make your time worthwhile, by sharing our research with you for free.

We derive our income from leasing equipment of our design to local OMMP service providers, and spend it researching new equipment, processes, and potions for use by medical marijuana patients.

We started the company because our cannabis research hobby was eating up all of our mad money allowances, and we will be happy to break even after taxes, so that we can again use our mad money for personal fun and games.

As part of our research, we supply pro bono potions to volunteer patient test panels with a variety of different medical complaints and to end of life patients requesting support to attempt a cannabis cure with gram a day doses.

We periodically conduct hands on extraction classes of our own, that thus far have been well received, and have agreed to start teaching show and tell extraction classes at other local groups.

We neither buy or sell cannabis products, and all of our donations come from our own strictly compliant garden, or from material donated for that purpose by other skunk pharmers, who meet our organic growing standards.

In our own garden, we are focusing on developing high CBD strains to make high dosages tolerable to more people, when delivered in a sublingual or oral format.  We currently have Cannatonic and another no name strain that look promising and ES will keep you up to date on that progress.

Skunk Pharm Research LLC was formed by us three equal partners, from the local skunk pharmers group, with no medical credentials beyond Red Cross first aid to any of our names.  We include one each retired electrical and manufacturing engineer, plus a bright young biochemistry student just getting started.

We have no illusions of any of our results ever being accepted by the medical profession, and in point of fact, that is not our goal or intent.

Our intent is to dramatically increase the number of MMJ patients running through the streets waving their arms and shouting out their miracle as they see it, and to send more to the voting place, with their eyes open, so that they can no longer be lied to.

The group made me Technical Director, because being older than dirt, I know enough to be dangerous on a wide range of subjects, though alas, I am the resident expert on absolutely nothing.

I mostly handle equipment and extraction process development.  I will freely share my progress on those projects with ya’ll, both here and on other forums where you see my Graywolf sobriquet.

Joe, is our R&D Director, dragging us old farts (or fartess) kicking and screaming into the 21st century.  He has not only helped us immeasurably with chemistry, but is leading our charge on tissue culture, synthetic seed development, and DNA sequencing.  He will be keeping ya’ll up to speed on his page as he progresses.

Eloquentsolution is our Marketing director in charge of purchasing, and our lease programs. She is also our master dirt pharmer, consistently pumping out our fat bottomed girls like clockwork and will be keeping ya’ll up to date on our master garden.

She also likes to play in the lab and developed both our Holy Anointing Oil oral, and topical medications, as well as other potions she will share with you.

More to come, so hope ya’ll will keep checking back.

Kohst ah Wa ya, aka Graywolf

386 responses to this post.

  1. Posted by perky_pat on April 7, 2017 at 7:04 PM

    Hi! I’ve learned a lot from this website, thanks to all responsible for that 🙂 I have a question I think you can help me with. In researching how to more efficiently use my butane (less refilling my tank)(closed loop)… I have discovered “bladder accumulators”, such as:

    http://epg.eu/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/3.3-Bladder-accumulators-low-pressure-type-ASB.pdf

    I think with such a tank, butane could be recovered efficiently, even without cooling, while also dump efficiently, regardless of actual volume of butane in the tank. Am I missing something? What do you think?

    Reply

    • I had to think about that one a bit. What a tank does, is:

      1.0 Holds liquid and this one would.

      2.0 Transfers heat from liquid to cool it down, which this would do poorly unless you regularly exchanged the gas or liquid on the other side of the bladder and chilled it.

      3.0 Provides head pressure during injection and if you controlled the pressure on the bladder, you control injection pressure.

      4.0 Minimizes tank head pressure during recovery, which you could do if you also removed the heat.

      5.0 Meets ASME and ODOT where applicable. I didn’t see any ASME certifications, so it probably isn’t, but possibly is available in an ASME Section VIII certified model/brand.

      6.0 Easily cleaned and maintained. Couldn’t use some harsh chemicals to clean insitu, so should investigate further.

      What occurred to me as a tongue in cheek looking at it, was that it also might be used as an injection pump, where the bladder is filled to its maximum, the tank chilled, and then the outer chamber pressurized with N2 to expel it. With a couple clapper valves on the intake and a 3 way pneumatic valve, it could be alternately pressurized and relieved, so as to pump in pulses.

      GW

      Reply

      • Posted by perky_pat on April 10, 2017 at 12:17 PM

        Hey, GW, thanks for your reply!

        As to your point 4 above, I had considered either refrigerating the tank (as I do now), or just having the tank be over-sized for its intended capacity. That is, maintain low pressure even when warm by having plenty (double?) extra capacity, and relying solely on the bladder to provide pressure for dumping.

        At any rate, I lack a lot of the technical understanding to try implementing something like this on my own, hence posting my question here.

        In your last paragraph, are you suggesting to fill the bladder with solvent, instead of the tank itself? That is definitely ‘outside the box’! Just to be clear, the typical circumstance is nitrogen gas in the bladder, and working fluid in the tank. This is a good demonstration of the function:

        Thanks again for your reply, and I look forward to any other thoughts you have on the matter 🙂

        pp

        Reply

  2. Santhai is producing many customized stainless steel parts for extraction companies

    Reply

  3. Posted by Mathew Sprague on April 3, 2017 at 9:20 AM

    Hi there
    I attended a class with Karla and have a couple questions can she or somebody call

    Reply

  4. Posted by Dillon on March 17, 2017 at 3:47 PM

    So i need a recovery pump what are your prices. Thanks

    Reply

  5. Posted by redturtle984 on March 16, 2017 at 4:11 PM

    Thank you to SPR for sponsoring this absolute gem of a site. I suppose one day it will be monetized, but this site stands apart from others insofar as obvious intent is to seek truth and advocate from that basis. Thank you. You a God send.

    Here us my latest refinement technique. This one hands down is FAR less difficult, messy, or time consuming than others and it blows me away the relative simplicity of purifying extracts. It can SURELY be refined better than shown, but WOW is it simple compared to short path distillation and is orders of magnitude cheaper.

    My audio sucks so here is how it works;

    I load a fine frit Buchner funnel with a few inches of aluminum oxide (alumina). I put a “slow” grade paper lab filter on the alumina then crumbled the frozen shatter onto the paper filter. I convered that with a layer of brown alumina just for contrast in color. I could have used sand, or white alumina. Then a paper filter on top. The filters funstion to keep,the chunks in place on top of the alumina and keep the addition of solvents from distrubing the shatter.

    Then I started with 90/10 water and iso solution as the mobile phase and vacuumed it thhrough. Color was cloudy. I started adding a less polar solvent, acetone, in place of water and as the solvents were run through I increased the ration of iso to acetone progressively (known as a solvent gradient) until the mobile phase was eluting a bright yellow which happened at about 50/50 acetone to iso.

    When the color began to taper off I collected the remaining parts seperately. The cloudy and fraction at first was discarded.

    I useds only a few hundred ml of acetone total and a pint and a half of 99% iso. This is miniscule compared to flash chromatography and the time involved from getting off my butt to start to shutting down and hings evaporating was only a couple hours counting cleanup. That would be impossible with a sample this size using flash chromatography as far as I know.

    I,look forward to suggestions and ideas and (gulp) criticism in order to,help,refine this concept.

    Reply

  6. Posted by Kenneth Hooker on March 3, 2017 at 8:45 AM

    Hello skunkpharm, came across a decarboxylation machine , ardentcannabis.com , any thoughts on this , thanks Kenneth

    Reply

    • Purdy, and big boys need toys, but decarboxylating is so easy using just a hot oil bath, that they really aren’t necessary.

      GW

      Reply

      • Posted by redturtle984 on March 6, 2017 at 4:41 AM

        Here is how to decarboxylate extract or flower if you find the odor undesirable;

        Put you stash into a ball canning jar. For extract I use a small ¼ stainless steel cup with the handle gone for this. Place a couple big handfulls of activated carbon pellets meant for purifying wather in fish tanks into the container along with the good stuff. They sell this stuff in the fish section at petco and the pellets are REALLY hard. Don’t throw any into the garbage disposal lolz….they will jam it up good 😳

        Then put a lid on it and toss it in the oven at about 275-300 F for an hour or so. I have the luxury of pulling a vacuum in my chamber so I do this which also faciltates de-terpinating the product a bit. The odor a cop picks up on or a nosey neighbor is mostly any pinene present. However the question at hand is decarboxylation. The device you posted boasts a complete decarboxylation in an hour and a quarter and this is consistent with my own observations regarding minimum time required to decarboxylate the product to near 100%.

        I admire the entrepenuer who not only identified a need and filled it but clearly did the product research well enough to understand the lengthy nature of the decarboxylation process. The odor that is produced from decarboxylation is of course a mix and water of course is a big part, but the real villian regarding odor are the terpenes and my own experience suggests it is the pinene primarily that when heated like this becomes pretty foul. In EXTREMELY small doses the pinene that is placed on a cardboard tree meant as a car air freshener is pleasant, but if you remove the entire plastic wrap from one of those trees all at once when fresh then you will not want to sit in the car for long on a hot day…yuuuck.

        GW is right insofar as any heat source applied long enough will decarboxylate, but remember that decarbing is only a tiny part of what will happen. Terpenes will evaporate readily and unless contained do indeed constitute a hazard for some. I have experimented so many times now with boiling and cooking extracts that my eyes have become highly sensitized to the evaporated terps. It causes them to stream tears down my face when exposed this way. All the literature on the various terpenes warn that repeated exposure can indeed sensitize.

        I like that this entrepenuer is offering a good solution in a contained environment. No criticisms but I would also suggest tossing in a handful of activated carbon pellets. When I do this while de-terpinating/decarboxylating my own oil it brings the odors to zero in contrast to having a cop pass my open window (as happened) and stating cheerfully, “I smell marijuanna!”

        Reply

  7. Posted by jack on February 28, 2017 at 6:50 PM

    Hello, phenomenal site, thank you.

    Can you point me towards any data about the decay rate of THC to CBN and ways to expedite it?

    I’m researching how to make a nice CBN sleepy tincture, a few drops under the tongue and in half an hour you’re eyes are closing. Can you save me some experimentation? I like the decarb. chart, and can maybe start there. I have Vg and Ethanol, I have fresh material and also have one year old flower material to start with… what if I took decarbed flower and then heated that.

    Thanks!

    -j
    p.s. what does CBD decay into?

    Reply

    • Posted by redturtle984 on March 1, 2017 at 4:02 AM

      I do not believe that it is posssible for THC in the Delta 9 bio available form to “degrade” into CBN. That is urban myth. Once THC decarboxylates and becomes THC Delta 9 variety that we all enjoy it is not chemically possible in any normal environment to initiate conditions to “change” THC into CBN that I am aware of.

      THC in bioavailable form is not secreted by the plant. The plant secretes a precursor to this product as well as the presursor to CBN and the others. Once this resolves into the forms that we seek it would take significant and unattainable (as a practical matter) effort in chemistry techniques to somehow convert the THC into CBN.

      I have only stumbled upon fleeting references to the possibility that THC does indeed break down in time to generally inert and unuseful byproducts, but even that information is sketchy. I can simply find nothing in credible references other than what amounts to urban legend that an individual can initiate a chemical change from THC delta 9 into CBN. I believe this misinformation exists because generally the two substances appear to be products of conversion from the same precursor plant substance, but one does not preceed the other at all – they just derive from the same general sticky stuff secreted into trichomes. The stuff is called Tetrahydrocannabinolic acid (THCA) synthase and is the enzyme responsible for the production of tetrahydrocannabinol (THC).

      The answer to your question is likely that as a practical matter it is not possible for THC Delta 9 to be “encouraged” to degrade into CBN. Even full decarboxylation is generally not understood fully by most users imo. I have seen unsubstantiated references that THCA decarboxylates fully into THC upon vaporization. I cannot fathom how this is possible to do in the few seconds it takes to inhale and thus ingest the THC present. I assert this position because I have cooked extract for over a half hour easily at elevated temperatures and decarboxylation procedes briskly past the thiry minute mark at even high temps.

      The “charts” seen on the internet generally reference the same one time home study done on a few plants, but think about the challenge of even measuring exactly when THCA decarboxylates into THC; ANY method that tests for such a conversion by itself can also be the trigger for conversion. Thin layer chromatography would be one possible way to test for this conversion in a quarifiable manner but even then even TLC is a process that uses solvents of in a vast variety of combinations and the act of measuring could easily by itself trigger the conversion imo. Without any doubt there are significant volumes of THCA being inhaled via vaporization that is not fully decarboxylated prior to ingestion.

      This is pretty easy to see if you put a glob of resin into a glass dish and cook it in the oven at 275-300 F. The extract will begin to “fizz” like soda during decarboxylation and you will see it takes MUCH longer to do this than is possible during normal vaporization. This is another urban legend that is VERY easy to test at home – simply heat your extract to any given temp and observe the production of gas. Imhave done this in an upside down test tube submersed in water then heated with a fresnel lens focusing sunlight (VERY high temp) on the submersed product. I have also done this on stovetop using boiling water as the source. Judging by gas production noted in the test tube this goes on for a much longer time than even the time it takes for the baking of brownies.

      This older video shows the heated water process for testing this idea in a time lapse segment. The extract produces substabtial gas and eventually pushes itself out of the test tube.

      Reply

      • This is not so, Dr. Fischedick coauthored a paper that details the catalytic conversion of thc to cbn with great efficiency. It is contained in a doctoral thesis written by Dr. Hazekamp at a university in the Netherlands, titled ‘cannabis, extracting the medicine’ and is freely available online in PDF.

        Joe

        Reply

        • Posted by redturtle984 on March 1, 2017 at 10:25 AM

          Respectfully,

          I searched extensively for the reference you cited regarding catalytic conversion of thc into cbn that you mention but could not find the specifics or the paper. I did find a reference to that title on researchgate dot com but I could not find the printed portion that details the efficient conversion of thc into cbn via a catalytic reaction.

          I found references regarding the conversion of thca into cbn as a degredation product but not thc delta 9. Can you post a link to that data? Have you convertd thc in this manner to cbn? What catalyst was used in the reaction to produce his result? I have been gathering every available scrap of research I can find that is peer reviewed and otherwise and would like to add this to my base.

          Reply

          • “cannabis extracting the medicine pdf” in Google click on the first link and it downloads for free from researchgate.com

            Joe

          • Posted by redturtle984 on March 1, 2017 at 12:40 PM

            I had already read through that paper and thought it was something else. I reread the portion you talk anout and cannot make the same conclusion that THC can be catalyzed into CBN. The paper and page number referenced speak to testing procedures and methodologies but no mention that I can see that THC delta 9 can be catalyzed into CBN is made.

            They seem to be speaking of a highly technical synthesis of CBNA from THCA but this is very different I believe than transforming either of the two once they are converted into the non-carbolyc-acid form. Even if fully substantiated the referenced report and page number do not address the conversion of Delta 9 thc into CBN that I can see, so respsectfully I disagree that this offers evidence of the process.

        • Posted by redturtle984 on March 1, 2017 at 3:07 PM

          Hehe, the author of the reference paper is definately my kind of author! In the preamble to the data and as an introduction to what the paper hopes to achieve he printed the following sentence, cut and pasted here;

          “…It is therefore interesting to notice that, even after decades of research, cannabis is probably most well known for causing anxiety, agitation and paranoia among politicians, while its medicinal potential continues to be disputed.”

          Lolz! Well said and dead on! Thanks to the gift of the First Ammendment along with the access to information the internet provides, the dispute about medicinal value of this drug has been thankfully buried in America. China, on the other hand, metes out the death penalty for posession and use of marijuanna according to Quora dot com – so in China it is definately UNHEALTHY TO SMOKE THAT REEFER!!!

          Rock on brothers and sisters. Right now I am gonna light up some nice red oil, take a hit, and get Chinese eyed!

          Reply

        • Posted by jack on March 1, 2017 at 7:27 PM

          does this help? study on 4 year old flower: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=47174

          Reply

          • Posted by redturtle984 on March 2, 2017 at 2:29 AM

            Excellent example of studies that where done during prohibition. The study really cannot conclude that CBN is derived from THC as a degredation product though if you read carefully. They do indeed proceed from that viewpoint as one possible explanation for the results that they ontained from their samples.

            However the data is pretty nebulous. What they actually determined was that a ratio change took place. If their data is valid this could indeed suggest that CBN is a degredation product of THC, however it could also be interpretted in many other ways.

            The key for me to understanding studies is to look for any stated learning objectives. This is a real tip off when trying to understand what they did. They were not studying the mechanism by which any change occurred and offer no evidence at all about just why they detected changes in plant material over a long period. Their underying assumption was that by measuring ratios of two substances, THC and CBN in plant mateial that they could determine in a forensic manner the age of the dope. Just the facts, ma’am.

            What they did not set out to do was determine if it was even possible in the lab to synthesize or otherwise describe the actual mechanism by which THC might degrade into CBN. The only thing they seemed to determine by data was that a ratio changed in a way that might support their original thesis. In other words they were looking for a change that supported their thesis and they found it.

            But also look at the unanswered questions; What was the level of the carbolic acid forms of THC and CBN in the fresh cut plants? Note that the researchers found zero CBN in the newly cut flower. Why? They also conclude that a decrease in THC was a causitive factor in the increase in CBN noted but again can show no mechanism and offer no substantiated technical explanation of why this is so. However their conclusion fits their original hypothesis. If I had studied the evapoation rate of THC on those same plants during that same time I might conclude from the data that THC evaporates from plant material over time, because it would fit the original hypothesis – (i.e. that it is even possible for THC to evaporate from plant material so stored).

            Also, most studies done during prohibition suffered from enormous regulatory hurdles that often go unmentioned in the studies conclusions. For instance the medical studies sanctioned by the government that involved “joints” were only allowed by using the government joint rolling machines donated as out of date and arguably worn out cigarrette rolling machines from Phillip Morris.

            Nearly all studies regarding medical efficacy that involved live patients actually used joints rolled on these government joint rolling machines. Why is this a critically important and overlooked piece of history? Because it turns out that marijuanna with a THC content above about 5-8% THC was simply too sticky for the machines designed to roll tobacco anf federal law prohibited the use of joints unless they were supplied by the government from these machines. Researchers seldom if ever noted this limitation on their studies unless footnotes were carefully read and follwed up on. (leave it to the feds to screw up jrolling a joint!) This means that research was hamstrung by low potency joints.

            We live today still with government folks who believe smoking a joint has no real medical value based almost entirely on studies done with machines that cannot roll a potent joint. Urban legend developed around medical efficacy because of this.

            My point is this; there is a widespread belief currently that THC can degrade in a spontaneous fashion into CBN. This was the real question posted by the original posting on this thread. Clearly there is evidence that MIGHT reasonably be intepretted this way, but the glaring point of evidence is frankly the lack of evidence in this regard. More to the point is this; if THC can spontaneously degrade into CBN then why doesn’t all THC do this during combustion? How does all THC avoid degradation into CBN, rather than just fractions? When I became severely injured stepping off my Harley at 50 mph onto the pavement I had a VERY long time in the wheelchair to do almost nothing but study and get high.

            In all of that time reading then rereading all of these things it is obvious that evidence in support of the claim usually references back to one or two simple studies like the one you posted while at the same time ignoring any actual chemistry that might be involved. My conclusion therefor is that government prohibition and the regulatory hurdles for research is the reason that this idea has become mainstream in the same manner that medical studies regarding efficacy became mainstream.

            Whew. Now I am gonna roll a joint. Can I borrow your machine? Mine is in the shop for cleaning…

  8. Posted by Laurie on February 22, 2017 at 6:51 PM

    Pharmer Joe, do you ever consult with attorneys and/or testify as an expert? Thanks.

    Reply

  9. Posted by James on February 19, 2017 at 12:18 PM

    Great information here for people like me who are considering a career change into extracts.
    Thank you!

    Reply

  10. Posted by Mark on February 17, 2017 at 7:33 PM

    Greywolf. Huge admirer of your work. I have recently started a “educational” lab and have fun with the current extraction process working with ethanol. I sometimes try too hard in my thinking and make costly mistakes. For one i had thought i could add a touch of organic fruit concentrate to a finished batch of solvent free pen oil. Wrong. I wasnt thinking that iti wouldnt vape due to the sugars added. Please help me. How can i save this oil and pull the sugary fruit concentrate out of the oil.

    Reply

  11. Posted by redturtle984 on February 17, 2017 at 11:25 AM

    Yesterday I dissolved half an ounce of good SCF extraction extract into four ounces of d-Limonene from Amazon. Pure food grade.

    My hope was that I could then use my short path device to fraction out the thc oil from the solution. The experiment only hoped to accomplish learning.

    I had problems right off with foaming so installed my kjahdal bulb under the short path rig. This solved the foaming and at first the distillation seemed to proceed as planned. Yellow thc oil drops started to form on the vigereux indents and the first tiny fraction was clear and nasty smelling. I tossed that part.

    Then I believe I turned the vacuum too high and likely temperature too. I cook on stovetop. Limonene began pulling over into the vacuum pump and in the blink of an eye my home was filled with pleasant citrus fog. WOW a tiny bit combined with moisture in the air and my ozone generator too created a tiny version smog-wise of southern california right in my Eugene living room! The most peduliar thing I have seen to date in this hobby.

    I stopped the experiment and poured the hot solution, about ⅞ of the amount originally put into the boiler in a petri dish overnight with a fan on it. It evaporated a bit but not a whole lot so I tossed the whole thing into a glass pyrex bowl and into the oven at 300F. Orange smell in home. Nice. I took it out from time to time and tilted the bowl from side to side to coat the entire area then back into the oven.

    Within an hour the orange smell had subsided considerably – so what the hell; I just vaped some. Very light taste of orange, almost zero respiratory irritation, and boy o boy what a great headrush! The medicine lost no potency that I can see and I can only assume that the trace of limonene that was so very pleasent to taste was responsible for the headrush effect. My hunch is the solvent effect allowed the medicine to penetrate the mucous layer in the lungs much more quickly at doses of limonene detectable as an orange smell.

    I have burned up a lot of good extract in my hobby trying to learn and it made me grin to realize that what I thought was garbage is still enjoyable albeit not at all what I had planned….kind of like being a father lolz!

    Reply

    • Posted by redturtle984 on February 17, 2017 at 11:37 AM

      I have seen marketing pictures of extract poured over glass orbs. I often wondered if more than marketing was involved. Now I know beyond marketing thhe unique advantage of doing this; by coating the orb with a thin layer of extract it is providing a huge surface area which, as I have discovered, allows for the spontaneous evaporation of the hydrocarbons, mostly terpenes, present in the mix.

      The short path distillation inevitably leaves traces of terpenes and volitiles in the oil and a large surface area of an orb would without doubt help to purge this via spontaneous evaporation. Especially with a fan blowing over it. My theory is that the THC molecule, being much larger than say a limonene molecule either does not evaporate at all or at a rate not measurable. The caveat is that the molecule must be exposed to passing air for this to happen.

      Now for some more vaping! Astronaughts drink Tang, and this astronaught is gonna vape something pretty close right now!

      Reply

  12. Posted by redturtle984 on February 4, 2017 at 12:07 PM

    This setup is all available on Amazon cheaply. Steam co-distillation is quiet as it needs no vacuum system, and obtainable by the hobbyist. Temperature generally stay down at around 98C

    Reply

  13. Hey Skunk Pharmers !
    My name is George Steele with Remington Health , located in Fort Worth, Texas. We have manufactured consumer health products for US based mass retailers for over 20 years.
    We have been tasked by one of our main national/international mass retailers to develop a line of “active” Aromatherapy products, that are only chemically reactive internally and not activated by any heat source, electricity, etc . We have worked over 2 years working on an evaporative solvent system that is both rigorous to disperse essential oils into an average size room but to do so on a controlled, “metered” basis. This was accomplished through evaporative solvent limiting by both chemically altering and layering solvents to alternatively speed up or slow down diffusion. Now we need an active essential oil, that can be shipped to our factory in Texas as a legal essential oil. Essential oils can be cold pressed or made through steam and/or ethanol steam distillation.
    We are not at this time prepared to add an in-house essential oil production facility. I was hoping you guys could point to a steam distiller/co2 supercritical extractor of kratom essential oils that we could import as an essential oil. Perhaps your high grade full spectrum extracts could be mixed/incorporated into a carrier oil at our tank farm mixing facility. Either the fine powder extracts or the kratom essential oil must be importable to the US with as little hassle as possible. We produce consumer health products including OTC drugs to Walmart, Sam’s Club, Costco, Target stores, GNC, Vitamin Shoppe, etc again for over 30 years. They want an analgesic like Aromatherapy system that is as natural as possible. I could achieve analgesia any number of synthetic chemical ways but they want natural. So we need kratom essential oil or perhaps a full spectrum, potent (analgesic, euphoriant), small particle fine powdered kratom extract with which our facility would blend with a carrier oil and then add to the diffuser system.
    Target Stores gave us a opening for 2 truckloads , with a second order of 1 truckload to fill the replenishment pipeline. It could become a very popular product at mass retail.
    Cell/text: 817-825-3583 (Texas, USA)
    Thank you for any guidance to suppliers of kratom essential oil or fine particulate, full spectrum analgesic extracts of kratom. Essential oil might be easier to import to US.

    Reply

  14. Posted by Timothy K on January 30, 2017 at 9:43 PM

    I would love help. I just read a article from about 5 years ago. My mother is in middle stages of dimensia. Needing help on dosing. Where do I start? I’m in Arizona and have access to mmj. She has never been a smoker. Do I go straight cbd? Combine thc? She currently gets irritated easily and can’t sleep. Thanks guys

    Reply

    • Posted by redturtle984 on January 31, 2017 at 1:17 AM

      Back when medical marijuanna was the only way to get this stuff I went to a camp out with other patients. One group had a mother who suffered from the severe dementia as well. “Dementia” is a catch all phrase applied also to my own mothers last days. It is generally used when other more concrete diagnosis do not fit, like Alzheimers.

      While there I saw them dose her frequently. Each time she tried to spit it out, became agitated over taking it, and acted (correctly so) like it tasted horrible. She absolutely hated it. They forced the doses into her mouth by holding her when she refused to cooperate.

      Those images have haunted me. To me it seemed barbaric to force this med down the throat of a human being that did not want it. I question the wisdom of attempting to dose a patient with such severe symptoms with what can only be called experiemental dosages of a plant with such powerful psycoactive properties. The fact that you are posting on a site asking such grossly underqualified people not only about dosing but even what component of the extract to provide this person should be reason to pause while you consider what you are proposing.

      I was designated as my own mothers guardian and this disease is heart breaking. However, when learning to dose myself heavily for my own severe ambulatory and nerve damage pain I learned that the wrong dose can cause severe discomfort emotionally. Of course I had the option of adjusting for myself.

      I am not a big fan of the doctors with their big egos and big paychecks, but it is a doctor who is familiar with medical marijuanna that your question should be directed to in my opinion. It is concerning to see such a decision based on a post on a site where half he people disagree with the other half more than half the time. First, do no harm.

      Good luck.

      Reply

  15. Posted by ICE-9 Labs on January 21, 2017 at 8:02 AM

    What is a good contact # and email address? We are researching teams to augment our R&D. We are able to provide incubator lab space if needed. Let’s talk!

    Rod

    Reply

  16. Posted by Shroom1986 on January 14, 2017 at 5:37 AM

    Hi Guys, great post on the source vacuum. If I ordered one to the UK is it safe to use with a plug adapter?

    Reply

  17. Posted by redturtle984 on January 13, 2017 at 4:51 AM

    This is my latest greatest and mankinds most significant video ever produced by a marijuanna alchemist, hobby grade, ever made! I have started finding all kinds of uses for the various glassware. I use the glassware to clean up and experiement with extractions of marijuanna but normally I do a whole month supply at a time at the start of each month. It means I get bored as a homebound disabled vet kind of guy so why not brew the very best? Plus I get a lot of email asking what I use and this is part of it.

    My position on posting here is that it always pays to sip great coffee before and after a bodaciously good vape hit. 😉😜😁. Plus it shows a great device that all extraction artists should posess.

    It is a fine frit Buchner funnel from chemglass, part # CG-1406-12 that mates via a 24/40 joint to a Kemtech Erlenmeyer Flask part #F664250. I store the Buchner funnel with a small boiling flask clipped on to avoid breaking the downtube which is vulnerable and fragile. The vacuum pump used is a Robinair part #15500. The Nalgene vacuum tube (the Rolls Royce of vacuum tubing) as well as the oher parts I bought on Amazon. I have misplaced the part number for the vacuum hose but search for nalgene vacuum hose on Amazon and there are many choices – be prepared for sticker shock….

    The vacuum pump is my second and I love this pump! Anyone doing this stuff as a hobby is stuck wondering what kind of pump to buy and websites say little about it.

    My first was a dual stage piston pump (VP4D) that came with the vacuum chamber. This one is a dual vane pump. The difference is remarkable and my new one outperforms the old one in every respect for this hobby. In way I am glad I got my first one because I have a reference to compare and can say without doubt that a dual vane pump is the way to go for only about $210.

    ☕☕☕

    Reply

  18. Posted by redturtle984 on January 5, 2017 at 10:36 AM

    Here is an idea to help purify extracts of the irritants normally found. Irrititants found are combustable, and THC is not.

    Reply

  19. Posted by ryan on December 29, 2016 at 9:44 AM

    cool website thanks for your research

    Reply

  20. Posted by Jeff Morrow on December 24, 2016 at 11:40 AM

    Your wisdom and its sharing are profound. Thank you!
    I am curious about the “plant waxes” found in the plant. (Not “wax” forms of extract.) More specifically, does anyone know what sublimation/vaporization/boiling point temp ranges those waxes have?
    Thanks,
    Jeff

    Reply

    • Posted by redturtle984 on December 24, 2016 at 4:32 PM

      Under high vacuum (needle near 30″ on gauge) the waxes I have dealt with in my short path setup do not seem to boil at temps of 220C on the themometer in the boiling flask. The “waxes” could be almost any combination of things depending on plant. Plus heating the waxes past about 150C or so changes the flavor and color.

      http://www.cyberlipid.org/wax/wax0001.htm

      Reply

      • Posted by Jeff Morrow on December 24, 2016 at 10:19 PM

        Thanks for the quick, helpful response. It seems you are saying these are long chain molecules with fairly high sublimation/vaporization temperatures i.e., above the temperatures of more interesting cannabinoids. Have I got that right?

        Reply

        • Posted by redturtle984 on December 25, 2016 at 2:16 AM

          The boiling point of “wax” is hard to find. Parafin is listed in the single reference I found as boiling at 370C. Likely parafin is so refined that it is possible to get it to this point before the components of the wax degrade and break down.

          Yes, the wax component of the extracts I have dealt with are much higher than the thc that I am after. THC itself is a VERY high boiling point substance and it takes VERY high vacuum and temperatures in the boiling flask (in my short path rig) approaching 180C before it pulls over in a high vacuum short path distillation.

          My gauge on my vacuum manifold is analog. The pump is a fual stage piston pump. It is (was) a good vacuum for pulling vacuum but it eas not a diaphragm pump. I was able to run half a dozen very small batches at the vacuum that it could pull, but it finally failed. Too much stuff in the oil from doing this. Cold trap will not catch it all.

          The way it needs to be done as far as I can see is by using diaphragm pumps in series. Diaphragm pumps cannot pull hard vacuum like a piston pump but they tolerate the chemicals going through them. The dual stage piston pump I have pulls enough vacuum at the xtreme end but at the extreme end there is no way to stop terpenes and other fume from bypassing the cold trap and entering the pump. I discovered that while it is possible for a hobbyist to engage in a vaccum driven short path distillation, I lack the sophistication and $$$ to make this possible for me.

          I accomplish short path distillation using a cryogenic sublimator in which the vapors only need to travel about ½ inch before it contacts the cold finger. This is only useful for relatively small quantities but does indeed work very well if short path distilled product is wanted. I have used it many times for this to obtain nrarly pure but it is a “lossy” process.

          This is why I ended up breaking some glass lolz and figured out steam co-distillation. The steam is injected under the extract puddle in the boiling flask and the head temp never exceeds 98C until the steam injector is above the extract puddle. When it jumps up to 105C I know the run is over. Co-distillation is easy to do on a hobby scale and works well. It leaves behind the waxes.

          Reply

  21. Posted by redturtle984 on December 21, 2016 at 8:27 PM

    Steam co-distillation of extract to purify it. The head temp stays below 105 C while the oil is pulled along with the steam. The steam generator is a flask connected to an evacuation tube inserted into the oil through the thermometer well. The light yellow oil is of the highest potency straight out of the receiving flask.

    Reply

  22. Posted by M h on November 21, 2016 at 9:15 AM

    Hello
    I have been pursuing your site and came across your article on standardizing a process for producing translucent oil concentrates. I was just curious as to whether the winterization step would be necessary if a thin film evaporator were employed?

    Reply

    • yes.Lot of fats left. Not winterizing will give you more fats in the final product,leaving it more opaque

      Reply

    • Thin film evaporation doesn’t require removing the plant waxes first.

      The product will be improved if you extract at low enough temperatures to not extract them in the first place, or remove them afterwards.

      Removing them afterwards also removes some of the monoterpenes, thus produces a less aromatic end product, so I prefer to not extract the waxes in the first place.

      GW

      Reply

  23. Posted by ctssite on November 8, 2016 at 4:22 PM

    Hey guys,
    I’m loving all the knowledge on this site.

    I just recently started with oils and conventrates and since I live in an area where I can’t get most edible / oils, I have to make it myself.

    I got ethanol tincture done with a MB2 ‘schöne and it is super dark green.

    I filtered it and waiting for a other filter 0.2 microns.

    Basically what I wanted to see is if I can mix bentonite clay into the ethanol mixture and filter it out? Will the THC bond to the bentonite?

    I don’t want to mess with hexane and other chemicals and that’s why I’m trying to find a way to filter it.

    Also, reduced the oil smells bad, nothing like cannabis, is that normal?

    Reply

    • Posted by redturtle984 on November 8, 2016 at 8:52 PM

      THC is sticky at room temperature. THC does not stick to polar things like water. It sticks to everything else.

      Reply

    • Ethanol and chlorophyll have a love affair, and it is in solution, not suspension, so doesn’t filter out.

      We minimize chlorophyll by extraction at subzero temperatures, so the frozen water soluble chlorophyll binding proteins, block access. https://skunkpharmresearch.com/qwet-extraction/

      Bentonite clays work, and I think THC loss would be minimal, but Pharmer Joe has the most experience with bentonite clay on our team, so will let him answer that question, and draw this to his attention for when he is in town.

      We didn’t discuss your overall process, but the typical cannabis plant smells are from their mono and sesquiterpenes. A well made concentrate smells like the plant it came from.

      If you remove most of the mono and sesquiterpenes, it loses those smells, and the phenolic diterpeninoids have a faint phenolic odor.

      Doing a polar extraction without freezing it first, also extracts the water and water solubles, like the alkaloids, as well as copious chlorophyll, so it is no surprise that the odor might be off putting.

      GW

      Reply

      • Posted by redturtle984 on November 9, 2016 at 6:54 AM

        Here is a video showing what started as amber shatter. I boiled off the first fraction which turns the light amber shatter into a thick deep red oil. I boiled off 10% by volume straight from being extracted. I ceased the boil when the obnoxious odor smelled in the fume ceases. The fume starts to become enriched with thc and the odor drops off to a faint smell. In this step my video seems to confirm GW’s assertion that chlorophyl gets trapped in extractions. I started with lab clean glassware and items and with clear/amber/orange extract color.

        Check out what appears to be chlorophyl that has been teased out in this process. Removing the stuff is highly problematic. My chromotography column latches onto it using hexane as the mobile phase and alumina as the stationary phase, but my column is only big enough for gram size quantities.

        A much larger filter/column made of alumina and pushed run through with hexane would be required than I care to attempt and frankly the green can be cooked out pretty well at 325F or so.

        I have process much extract using isopropyl alcohol/water combo (rubbing alcohol) because the water/iso azeotrope seems to get the polar water component close enough to the partially miscible components to pull them out. I have used a wide variety of available solvents and his is the one that tells the tale as shown in the video.

        Thank you GW for all you do. I hope this helpedd.

        Reply

        • Posted by redturtle984 on November 9, 2016 at 7:14 AM

          Same beaker later as the rubbing alcohol boils off. As it boils off the green is reduced. I also seem to,have isolated DNA proteins in the extract (a lot) and these go from transparent to brown to black, then shrivel within minutes while boiling. There is a LOT going on during a refinement but really I am just doing what men have done for thousands of years – I cook away what I do not want and keep what helps me. Since I am retired and have no profit motivation the process is greatly simplified. I just like doing it and sharing videos.

          Any fellow “Stoner Corner” friends who find themselves in Eugene, drop me a line. I enjoy sharing as a way to pay forward what was gifted to me when I first sought treatment. If you need to curl up in a blanket in a corner for a while after vaping this stuff, then I understand. 😉

          Reply

  24. Posted by Charles on October 20, 2016 at 1:11 PM

    Hi my name charles and I’ve be dabbling with extracts for quite sometime now but can honestly say nowhere near your level of expertise. Over the past year or longer I have been making hash oil mixed with terpenes for vape cartridges. I’ve been using the terpene because it seems like a better route for vaping rather than using PG or VG. A lot of information has left me kind of without an exact answer but you guys seem to clarify things on a better level. My questions:
    1. Are terpenes so far proven to be safe for mixing with concentrates for vaping in cartridges?
    2. Is decarbing required to get a better effect for the cartridges?
    3. Is there a way to make a pure concentrate that can go straight into the cartridge for a diy guy such as myself? And the reason I ask this is because there are several companies that state their cartridges are pure, either through co2 extraction or food grade alcohol extraction.
    I greatly appreciate the time you take to answer any of my questions.
    Thank you,
    Charles M.

    Reply

    • Morning Charles!

      Each terpene (C-10 through about C-30) has is own medicinal properties, along with side effects.

      As with salubrious things like Oxygen, the poison is in the dosage, so it depends heavily on how much of what.

      I highly recommend that you obtain and use, Second Edition Essential Oil Safety, by Tisserand/Young. It outlines both sources and medicinal effects, as well as limit values.

      Decarboxylation isn’t required for medications that are to be vaporized, but decarboxylation does lower the extracts viscosity, improving its flow.

      One way is to use the C-21 fraction from short path distillation, with C-10/15 fractions added back.

      If you’ve been dabbing for awhile, you may find hits from E-Pens unsatisfying by comparison. I’ve had some satisfying E-Pen skillet hits, but they are somewhat messy to maintain.

      GW

      Reply

      • Posted by redturtle984 on November 6, 2016 at 9:29 AM

        I would like to add a video that shows how I purge things quickly. I hope this offers a point of view that helps. The fiberglass mat I use is available on Amazon for hobbies. I cook the mat in my oven prior to use to burn off manufacturing dust. I run a needle through it several times prior to use to allow enough airflow through. The vapor hits last a very long time and I do not believe very much, if any thc is being carried away with the terps in the smoke.

        The puck is being held on top of a borosilicate glass petri dish and the fiberglass acts like a wick in a lanter for the extract. THC does not combust. Terps do.

        Reply

  25. Posted by redturtle984 on October 14, 2016 at 1:56 PM

    I vote for clear concentrate!

    Reply

    • I’ve actually never met a well made cannabis concentrate that I didn’t like. Some just better than others.

      I surely do admire Clear for its smoothness and medical effectiveness. I admire Royal Jelly even more!

      At the other end of the scale and at least an order of magnitude less smooth, but more aromatic and flavorful, are the live resin extracts. Ah loves as much of those as ah can stands too, just cough more.

      Since it is of course the monoterpenes that create most of the aroma and taste, all of the extracts that include them, include their entourage effects. Those effects vary considerably, based on the medicinal effects of the mono and sesquiterpenes present in the specific strain involved.

      I liked smoking flowers too, except for the part about what it did to my bronchial tubes. Lot’s of good reasons to sing our “Hail Mary’s.”

      GW

      Reply

      • Carrying the thought a little further, smooth can be relative to the dab size. An Oregon Skunk Pharmer, whom relocated to the land of CA, was visiting and took a large enough dab of Clear, that his eyes crossed and he gasped for breath, unable to talk for long enough for me to notice, but not yet become concerned.

        He finally gasped, “The problem with big dabs of Clear, is that its hard to get under it to cough it out.” I mentioned that I had some Live Resin that would certainly get under it, and he replied, “No, I want more of that, as soon as I’m able.”

        GW

        Reply

      • Posted by redturtle984 on December 3, 2016 at 6:53 AM

        What I miss is old style hashish that came up from Mexico when I was a teeny bopper in Madras Oregon.

        It was very dark green, made half your lung come out coughing, and was the most pleasant high I have had. It had a unique flavor and I hope dispensaries can provide this some day

        Reply

  26. Posted by redturtle984 on October 13, 2016 at 10:45 PM

    Is it legal to store unlimited quantities of extract in a solution of hexane in Oregon? Hexane would render the product unfit for human consumption, similar to the way that it is legal to posess homemade alcohol if it too is rendered unfit for drinking (denatured).

    Can any legal beagle see if the wording of the law specifies “usable” in a way that means immediately usable? Obviously hexane takes very little effort to purge completely and safely from extract but the same is true for denatured alcohol – the denaturing agent can be removed easily.

    Unfortunately I do not have a problem with too much extract lying around lolz! But as I do my hobby chromatography experiments with hexane as the mobile phase I always of course recover the purified product in a solution of hexane. Just gram quantities, but it got me to wondering if extract in solution of hexane was considered “usable” product under the law?

    Reply

  27. Posted by Drew on October 13, 2016 at 9:10 AM

    What about lipoprotein cancer?

    Reply

  28. Posted by Lightning moon on October 12, 2016 at 12:30 PM

    Was wondering if you guys have tried dewaxing when using 600a. I’m talking about single solvent. blasting. Freezing in a cryo. Dewaxing then purging. Is it counterproductive since I will dewax terps. Also what about blasting into 3a sieve. Will that lose terps too. Just curious if you had any info.thanks

    Lightning moon

    Reply

    • Morning LM! I designed the Mk VIII inline dewaxing system, but have never used it, because what we’ve found is that if you extract at the temperatures that you are using of inline dewaxing, you don’t extract much of the non targeted C-30 elements in the first place.

      That is why the Mk IVC and VC Terpenators come with a counter-flow heat exchanger for pre-chilling the LPG using liquid N2.

      I will post my WolfWurx Mk VIII design, that was shared publicly prior to Pharmgold. Any further refinements are their intellectual property.

      GW

      Reply

    • Posted by redturtle984 on October 13, 2016 at 8:28 AM

      This post deals with dewaxing in general.

      I have been happily consuming much great extract and am going now to blaspheme;

      It simply is not necessary and is wasteful to dewax extract.

      I can prove in video, through logic and recorded data, and with methods easily done that if the proper terps are purged from the extract the vaping experience is as smooth easily as pure thc.

      I can and have refined pure thc from extract. yummmmmmmm,.
      But always with dewaxing there is so much loss until I realized several key findings over the course of at least a pound and a half of extract use.

      I find that it is impossible to remove thc completely from waxes without nearly an equal amount of thc by weight being entrained in the wax that is removed. I have proven it in experiment. So dewaxing is a lossy process, and labor intensive.

      It is not the wax that causes significant respiratory irritation at all. I have repeatedly vaped extracts treated to remove and convert terps but dispense with dewaxing and the vape is pristine smooth and delightful. VERY little loss because it is only very little of the terps that need removed to do this.

      I have vaped, smoked, and infested a lot of extract and have come to believe that dewaxing is actually not a preferred method for me. The was causes no problems and even adds body to the vape. Without the terps in the wax (terps are solvents) it does not burn the lungs.

      Please don’t make me walk the plank now….lolz, but I can produce a vid to show precisely how to do this safely and within the safety guidlines GW has set for this site (no open flame for solvent removal). Flame does indeed put a polish on the oil but is not necessary. I only like to flame off the residual pinene.

      Reply

  29. Posted by Louie on October 11, 2016 at 9:44 PM

    Hello I am addicted to Percocet. I have had 3 back surgies, esphogus surgery, Nasal surgery, been stabbed and shot. So been on them since 2008 for pain but I really want to stop but there is no way I can buy myself. I’m to the point if I even get frustrated I run for a pill.

    Reply

    • Posted by redturtle984 on October 13, 2016 at 9:43 AM

      There is much anecdotal evidence that marijuanna can ease the withdrawls symptoms of various drugs.

      However, there is only one way to get off of prescribed pain medications; throw them into your fireplace and go have a good cry. Life hurts the more times I got broken, cut, burned or whatever, but the only way to really live life is just to accept the pain, smoke a doob, and simply take pain pills “off the table” as an option.

      I know what pain is, and I do not say this lightly. Destroy your prescription for them, flush or burn the ones you have, and decide to live instead of just exist. Then grab some great Indica, roll a big fat joint, call a friend, and light up.

      Report back if it works.

      Reply

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