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Poisoning the well!

Joe and I have both spoken out against sub standard and unsafe extraction devices, but how about those suppliers whose marketing plaudits, include poisoning the well for their competition with exaggerations and untruths? Suppliers with such a low opinion of their own product, that they don't feel up to competing based on their own products attributes, so they make a concerted effort to shoot down the competitors product using a tapestry woven of truths, half truths, and untruths. Joining MO in that regard, we now have Connoisseur Concentrates with Mr Extractor, whom paint their competitors as intentionally poisoning the public. They present their machine as the safer alternative, yet publish a video demonstrating extracting indoors, with out a properly ventilated extraction enclosure, a never, under any circumstances NO NO. If they are the safer alternative, what does that make the rest of us? Compounding the egregious blunder, they also didn't first vacuum the oxygen from the extractor before injecting the butane.  They instead floated the oxygen laden atmosphere out and burped it out into the room. Please ask your local fire marshal's views on how safe he thinks that is. In point of fact their "safer" machine didn't even have a vacuum connection for a pump, as do both the Tamisium and Lil Terp they present as inferior. We touched swords on IC MAG forum, ( Drew left the field to avoid answering the questions listed below. I see them germane to the question of whether Mr Extractor is indeed safer and ahead of the industry, or whether they are just a rip off of the Tamisium and Lil Terp, adding a glass sight glass unlikely to meet ANSI/ASME in this application. Certainly the jackets are handier than buckets, but are they safer and what in Earth justifies the $6000 markup over the cost to assemble a Lil Terp?   Is it the attached jackets to avoid using buckets. What justifies the added cost over the Tamisium TE-175 at about $1800? The questions begging an answer, and being avoided, are as follows: (1) A yes or no question. Do you have a ME PE stamped document certifying Mr Extractor to meet ANSI and ASME? (1.1) May we see a copy? (2) Now may we talk about finishing. Would you share with us how you recommend finishing the material from your recovery pot to meet current residual solvent standards? (3) Do you have any reputable third party lab analysis of product demonstrating the common deposits of metal and PTFE piston ring material in extractions and if so, would you please share? (4) I am most curious about your use of 9mm borosilicate tube for the extraction tube, which we too looked at because it is so obvious, but decided to not pursue it after considering the effect of shock sensitivity during sharp temperature gradients. We even looked at having the glass coated inside and out with clear PTFE for the added safety, but decided it wasn't a good idea to have a pressurized glass vessel with flammable gas inside. Sort of along the same lines of why the gas station won't fill your glass jug for you. (4.1) That leads me to the subject of liability insurance. May we see a copy of your product liability policy and contact information to your carrier? Drew also claims superior performance, but has failed to address the following observations: 1.0 The pumped system is considerably faster. 2.0 The pumped system evacuates the oxygen before injecting butane, so that there is never an explosive mixture. 2.1 Since Mr Extractor uses no vacuum, the passive system mixes the butane with atmosphere as it is injected and floats the explosive mixture out. It is vulnerable to ignition and explosion during that process. 3.0 The system is recovered to -22" in a pumped system, so only 25% of its volume in vapor is lost. 3.1 100% of its volume in vapor is lost when opening a passive system. 4.0 An active system recovers most of the butane soaked into the material in the columns, by vacuuming to -22"Hg. The pumps are unable to achieve that level until most of the butane is gone. The last 25% between -22" Hg and -29" Hg, is subsequently pumped off using a vacuum pump, so when the columns are opened, there is not an explosive mixture. 4.1 The passive system not only doesn't recover the butane soaked into the material to the same levels as the active systems, but when opened the columns are definitely within explosive limits. Because it leaves the butane in the material, losses are greater. 5.0 A pumped system can pass more fresh clean butane through the material faster, and in both directions, so ergo it extracts faster and more completely. 6.0 You can recover a pumped system recovery pot at 31.9F, so as to preserve more carboxylic acids and aromatics. 6.1 Even using dry ice, you are still using a hot water bath with the meds in it, utilizing passive techniques. 7.0 An active system easily pre-distills butane at 85F, to remove residuals including Pentane, which boils around 100F. 7.1 Recovery at 85F using a passive system takes much longer. 8.0 An active system offers more latitude for propane mixes.

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  1. Jonathan Rubinstien

    Nice build! Featured in our newsletter:

  2. Z Gharib

    I died laughing reading this. It reads like the teacher comments on my high school chemistry lab reports. A lot of things like " Mhmm and did you consider that you were venting a flammable gas and not under the hood" HAHAHAHAHA this took me back. SkunkPharms keeping it real as always.

  3. Chris

    You're one to talk GrewWolf!Lol! If your so smart why does your passive system take 2 or 3 hours to operate? You also say your device are asme certified by building together a bunch of asme certified parts. That's like saying you can make an fda certified device by welding together a bunch of fda certified parts. And you leave that up amateurs. Sounds like you feathers got ruffled and you didn't like it. You know the responses were posted out there and you need to posst them up instead of pretended they don't exist.. Maybe it's because you didn't like the answers you got.its easy to tell a one sided story to your friends in private, post up the answers unless your just hosting your private shit talking forum. Easy to sound smart when you only say your half of the conversation. I wouldn't buy an 8 ounce system, but I sure the hell wouldn't buy your slow fake certified devices either.. Thanks for taking down your open blasting stuff too, glad to see you finally took a dose of the safety shit you keep talking about everyone else.

    1. skunkpharmresearch

      Which passive system takes 2 to 3 hours to operate, and under what conditions? I ignore most of the hubris on line by those who are ill informed or have a secondary agenda, because they aren't about facts, they are personal attacks like this one, which I have little patience and no time for. If you were better informed, you would know that long ago I submitted my designs for third party peer review and certification that they met ANSI/ASME, to lead the industry in that direction. If you didn't have a secondary agenda and were not in collision with the standards that I've outlined, I'm not sure what the purpose of this conversation is, beyond a personal attack? If you can't meet those standards, I suggest you get out of the game now, because regulation will put you out of any legitimate business. GW

  4. Murphy Murri

    Thank you for taking the time to illustrate the issues properly. The worst thing about a bad closed loop system is the danger posed by an operator who *thinks* he is safe. False advertisingt and an open dare to jeopardize your life and our industry are very different. Mr Extractor is going to get a case law named after them at some point if this shit keeps showing up at tradeshows.

  5. generalgrievous

    This 8 oz unit is joke ..I would never inject tane into atmosphere ..or 'hot' solvent into my extraction ..nor pay 6 grand for an 8oz mr. Coffee ..they gonna rip a bunch of patients who want to extract for themselves off .. and probably facilitate several injuring themselves..

  6. Green Dean

    DAMN!!! That was like yo momma jokes for the well educated! Well done article guys. Points to inconsistencies. Defines why. Throw on a little heat (shame on them) to boot. Now that's some good coffee, lol. P.s. I admire your efforts to stop human fireballs and progress much safer societal practices in this area. Your like total heroes, and thanks for helping progress mankind, where others are afraid to. Period.

  7. jump /injack

    Good questions, apparently they are a fly by night outfit. They will get someone injured badly if they don't take butane as seriously as they should; butane is a real life changer when it explodes, the fireball is over 3000 degrees and will melt steel and burn the fat off of your body.

  8. JJ

    I contacted y'all about a year ago about how I have a rotovap. I was curious if you knew if you did a high proof alcohol extraction and ran through rotovap, if the end product that is left in the collection flask still has plant properties, such as the TCH in it post distillation? Is there a setting you suggest? My equipment is advanced, so I can remove, say just the ethanol from the maceration/tincture and it will distill through low temp and low pressure (tricking the boiling point for said setting) which then does not "cook" the plant material during the process. Does the ethanol that is pulled off from the tincture and remains in the collection flask have THC in it AND does the water left with the plant material in the rotary flask also still have the THC in it? Thank you.

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