Hi ya'll! Have ya'll been watching the folks blowing themselves and their homes up using butane extraction techniques, thus leading you to believe that such an attempt is suicidal?
Thank Gawd (Great Spirit) that paying attention to details reduces the odds to limits that you might embrace, after being thus enlightened. May we discuss, before you give up all BHO extraction attempts in deference to your family and home?
Clearly Butane is flammable and can be explosive, if confined in a small space and supplied with about 1.86 to 8.41 percent butane to atmospheric air content and an ignition source.
In addition, ignition sources come from a number of different unexpected sources, so let's discuss that issue.
For starters, I never personally do a butane extraction indoors or any confined space! None at all, zero, zip, forget about it! It is important to keep it below explosive limits!
I do it all outdoors, with a non sparking plastic fan blowing, not sucking, the butane evaporation away! Butane loves self abuse and will clump together and pool, being that it is heavier than air.
I use three fans to keep any free butane dispersed below ignition limits of 1.86% and from it pooling and accumulating in low spots like through my basement window to my basement, chock full of ignition sources.
The central point is that concentration of the butane boiling off can be kept diluted below combustion limits, by blowing the accumulating vapors away using a fan.
Butane liquid expands 288:1 when changing from a liquid to a vapor, and Henry's law tells us that the butane vapor and the air it combines with at 1.86%, expands in direct proportion to their temperature change. Butane in open air has a flame temperature of 1970C/3578F, so for instance if the butane vapor ignited at an ambient temperature of 291 Kelvin (18C/65F), it would expand about 7.2 times.
A 300 ml can of butane occupies about 18 cubic inches, X 288 = 5184 cubic inches.
5184 cubic inches divided by .00186 mixture = 2,787,097 cubic inches
2,787,097 X 7.2 = 20,067,098 cubic inches, or 11,613 cubic feet. With 8 foot ceilings, that is a 1452 square foot house. That expansion occurs in the blink of an eye, so you can see why a room incapable of containing a 1452 square foot house would have to expand its ceiling and walls outward to accommodate it.
It also doesn't take much imagination to realize what 3578F flame temperature does to organic matter like skin and eyeballs, so except for the prestige of having been immolated, it has little to recommend it.
Secondly, let's talk about stupid ignition sources. Despite previous discussions, I have literally grabbed the hands of cigarette smokers poised to light a cigarette while extracting. What can I say about addicts whom go on automatic pilot and forget where they are? Leave your cigarettes and lighter elsewhere.
Lose the lighter and cigarettes (bong?) if you are an addict! Once the pin is pulled on a 5 second grenade, it is not your friend!
All pretty simple, but lets talk about subtleties! How about sparks?
Starting simple, dragging your feet on concrete with gravel imbedded in your shoes can create a spark.
Wearing plastic clothing, especially socks, can also build up and discharge a static electricity spark, especially on cold dry days.
Unless it is an explosion proof fan, always blow, instead of suck the vapors away, not only for efficiency reasons, but because the sparks from an electric motor slip ring can ignite the vapors.
Always use plastic or other spark proof blades, because a grain of sand can spark when hitting a steel blade, and be propelled into the concentrated vapors.
Always keep a fully charged and recently inspected fire extinguisher on hand. Shit sometimes happens and less shit is better, as I see it!
Never had to use one at home, though I have in industry, and they can't be beaten when they are called for!
If you get inadvertently sprayed with butane, stop, and go change clothes. Immolating as I sees it, is highly overrated!
Keep a blanket on hand, and if you do get unexpectedly ignited, immediately wrap yourself in it to extinguish the flames.
The good news is that none of the above has ever happened to me, or any of my friends who pay close attention and try their very best to avoid it.
Ohmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Hey GW, I am curious how much ethanol expands from liquid to vapor
I have created a prototype of a Pyro System but cannot seem to get the ignition source to, well, ignite the Butane. I use a nozzle from a grill lighter to chanel the Butane and a 7kv electric spark for the ignition. The spark does not ignite the Butane when it directly hits the nozzle, nor does it ignite it when arching over the nozzle. So my proposed question to you is how can I make the spark ignite the Butane? Would I need to have a larger nozzle or a larger spark? The fuel source is a butane refill canister.
You need to work on mixture. Butane is flammable between about 1.8 and 8.4%. Below 1.8% it is too lean and above 8.4% it is too rich. GW
To all of them, there are so many mistakes and misunderstandings in them its best to start over. the ones with the long big pipes all have the bad characteristics and built in problems, third party approvals mean nothing. they are crude and unsafe, look at all the failures over 350 a year to make my point. My patented system has been in operation all over europe and USA for over 11 years with NO problems from start day onwards. that's because it is designed correctly and covers all the bases that are left uncovered in all of those the pipe people are making now called safe good systems.you think safe because it is made by the rules, but the rules are drummed up by who ever thinks pipes are the way. WRONG.I beat every engineer and chemist of earth with it, ALL THIRD parties as well.I have been at it for 20 years, do you think you know more? My aggregate experience tells me these machines are rudimentary and crude and if they go on more accidents will happen. I will now bring mine forward and offer it in many configurations that will make this business safe for a change.Look at the foolishness on the recovery catch, how long does it take to recover? Hours is your answer, minutes is mine.I have seen all manner of using dry ice and other nonsense, but all who use these machines know it takes, Forever.I can write a book on how bad they are from design onwards. If they were designed right, for use by people who do not have long experience, accidents would net be happening. I posted the BHO method in 1998 and have seen the damage first hand. it breaks my heart.I was paying it forward or so I thought. I am sorry for that, but all who do so, please reconsider, do not buy these big useless systems, My attorneys have been set to work to shut down these bogus patent infringers anyway and letters have been sent to them shutting them down or allowing them top obtain a license and training to use it and manufacture it, if we all are to carry on we must show complete safety and efficiency for our works.Each time an accident happens, they use it against us.if we use to much power they use it against us.they keep changing the rules as well, using engineers, engineers are not the dreamers, they are the guys who work out a model according to the rules and the rules are not necessarily the best, or the right way to do things. also those who are infringing are really THIEVES who use my work in original form from 20 years ago, want to buy a 20 year old anything? yesteryear tech. stolen from someone else. me. some when confronted want me to be polite to them after they have been ripping me off for years now? imagine finding some one in your house stealing from you? all good eh> you engineered a safe stolen system, congrats guy.
Your arm waves and ranting tell me that you are not a technically gifted person, making it difficult to believe anything else you've said. Put up or shut up, but stop posting threats on this blog and denigrating our readers. If you continue to do so, you will be excluded. GW PS: For the record Indra did respond with more self serving BS, so his rambling reply went to spam.
I dont know why your so mad indra this tech of "yours" is about dead anyways. And its just all around stupid Only dumb fuck kids that dont know what extract is smoke it. Just becuase its marketed to them. You invented a rediculous method to extract wax and fat leaving the door open for obsurd defatting and winterizing tech. 5 days in a drying oven burnt to a crisp to get the poison out and call it shatter. Yeah thanks buddy. All your invention did was make a generation ignorant about concentrates. If you were a real chemist you would know the best ways to extract thc oil. It only takes a sophmore chemist to tell you the Best most efficient safet ways H2o, etoh, no solvent at all Just you laying claim to being the inventor of bho makes you sound like an idiot and totally uncredible. Its like saying you invented herpes
Indra. If you are the Erowid poster, I hope you recognise your original posted tek (or invention) involves no vacuum and a PVC blasting tube...
never have I been so bummed out by people after paying it forward in 1998 by posting the BHO method online. I wanted to give folks honey oil again, not fires and explosions.I have many many times tried to wake folks up about it. $ seems blinds ones vision and folks fool themselves with this GEM. given so freely then. I hope before I pass, people stop blowing up homes and use their heads, TREAT IT LIKE COBRA VENOM. its more dangerous that that.
ricardomontalbanthe3rd, your a fuking idiot sahitforbrains, Boffo is a 1920's word for way cool, stick it up your ass dikwad and leave me alone.stop posting your lying BS on facebook and hash church you fuking nitwit. and I mean this in the nicest way possible. STFU
[…] frequently attempt to educate interested amateurs as to the dangers of improper extraction and actively discourage any use of butane indoors. (Read the blogpost, Booming BHOtards: The Explosion of Explosions from SkunkPharm Research […]
[…] Butane Safety […]
So many things wrong with these statements, it is actually hard to blow yourself up with butane and measuring butane content in the air with a hundredth of a percent is not probably. I feel your regurgitating information you don't truly understand.
have you made your final arrangements yet? you should if you thing its hard to blow yourself up with butane.
Still studying, but noted an simple mathamatic error in your post. 1.86% is not a devider by 0.00186 but 0.0186. So an 300 ml butane will saturate at 1.86% an 161 square feet (about 4 feet wide, 5 feet deep, 8 feet high) room which will expand 7.2 times at ignition. The pressure wil dislocate door, windows and even damage walls, but the heat will generally cause the most serious injuries.
the heat you mention is around 5000 degrees
I think this post is very help full and I will be recommending this to all my friends and clients
I'm finding this thread very late, but it is really interesting because "gyrogearloose" was the name of a member of the long-defunct site "The Hive" and back in about 1999 he posted a post describing how to do open blasting with butane (using, sadly, PVC pipe). But his lack of writing skills made it virtually impossible to follow his method. What made that interesting then was that it was the first mention I had seen of extracting cannabis to obtain "hash oil." In fact, it was the first mention I had seen of hash oil anywhere since it disappeared practically overnight from the black market in the very early 1980s. Under the name "Indra," I rewrote his information in proper English that could be understood (I regret not knowing at the time that PVC was a no-no and propagating that information). This document was put up on Erowid where it still is today, That post marked, for me, the beginning of the return of oil. So he might have a little bit of logic behind his feeling that he was at the forefront of it, but unless he can make some sense it will be hard for him to make any point.
Is there some reason that more people don't wear a nomex flight suit gloves and socks, with a 3M 6800 gas mask with anti-static puma Silverstone shoes? Or am I being to careful.
anyone not grounding themselves with a wrist strap to ground is a fool on a fools errand.
Got it! Thanks GrayWolf! "Keep up the Hard Work" Have a BHOmb day! Peace! General Grant
Please give best advice for Elite canned butane? I've been looking at MSDS list & was wondering any thoughts or recommendations for a brand or 2? Thanks! ⛽️
Hello GW, Question for YA. When flushing system with INERT gas(you recommend Nitrogen) any reason I cannot use CO2? Vapor not liquid. Purpose for this is to displace O2 with a non combustionable gas. I cannot see a reason not to use it. That's why I'm asking!
Keep in mind that if you displace indefinitely in a closed space you can displace the air in the room and suffocate.
Hi, I've read through your blog looking for this information, but I can't find it. Have you ever done a fire safety analysis of a closed loop butane extractor as opposed to open blasting into a tray? Your blog says to educate, educate, educate... well I need to educate a DA, judge and maybe a jury. I'm not sure if you recall our last conversation, but I was asking for pointers on my set up, but I was raided before I could even do a run. I've found out that a neighbor may want to testify as to the fire dangers of what I was doing (living in a forest area). I want to be prepared with a defense for this and was wondering if you had any information.
your an idiot
I had a third party registered professional Mechanical Engineer review and certify the Mk III, IV, and V designs meet ANSI/ASME. Whether they meet NFPA is highly dependent on how and where they are installed. How and where did you have yours installed?
I hate to bust your balloon, but those systems are unsafe at best and useless except in very small batches, the long tube is a joke.
And which systems are you referring to? Are you including the systems certified by third party PE's to meet ASME, NEC, and NFPA requirements in OR, WA, CO, NV, and MD? GW
it should be a certification to do extraction. I would think just copying what he wrote about would help you out then you just need something stating that your grow lights are not a fire hazard which could always be inspected by a licensed electrician or a journeyman The same is any electricity in A house is inspected for fire hazards
correct, soon a Union will open to those interested, a school to teach the patent for it will be held several times a year and grads will get a lease to use the patent, currently in the whole world held rights soon to be enforced.
Hi, I've been desperately looking for information from a confident individual in the know about BHO being administered as medicine for a stage 4 lung cancer patient. I've heard both sides of the story when asked about its safety for consumption, but overall the vibe was negative. As a limited option, I would like to know how I could identify it as safe for consumption having not been self-produced. I had read about testing for residual butane by lighting it and listening for crackles, hisses, etc. This test came out negative. Also, I've been told that THC content could be negligible in BHO. I would be so grateful if someone could help me out. Also, I've been informed that the product has been decarboxylated. Again, any way to confirm this having not been in charge of production. I'm hoping for replies to the questions I seek, as I've mostly received replies pointing me in other directions, while I do not currently have that luxury. Sure do appreciate!
First thing I would do is go straight to Rick Simpson Oil (RSO) rather than BHO. The best information on that can be found at http://www.phoenixtearsfoundation.com/ Everything you want to know can be found on that site including how to make it. Best of luck.
Hats off and a salute to Rick for his contributions to medical cannabis, especially at its personal cost to him. Without his groundwork and sacrifices, medical cannabis would not have advanced as far as it has in this time span. As I discussed with Rick on their radio program, I don't agree with the use of Naphtha or Isopropyl for extracting pharmaceuticals. A small matter given the number of things we do agree on, but not one that I can compromise on.
Hi Jody! Theories and well intended proponents abound, but my own extraction of a split lot of material five different ways, didn't show enough gas chromatograph variance to fall outside the general scatter from the error of measurement process. Specifically they were Naphtha, n-Hexane, n-Butane, Isopropyl, and Ethanol. That, and our own experience supplying end of life patients with cannabis oil, suggests that the "cults" dancing around the "only-real-cure" are deluding themselves. Clearly anyone saying butane doesn't extract the THC, is not up to date on the overwhelming mass of GC and HPLC/MS data that flies in the face of their theory. You can tell if it is purged and decarboxylated by placing a container of it into a 250F hot oil bath and watching the bubble activity. Read http://skunkpharmresearch.com/decarboxylation/ As far as telling what else might be in there, I know of no other way to tell if there are other chemicals present from the growing/handling/storage operation than a GC/MS.
well there is NMR and other ways to determine content.
The best way to make sure there is no additional residual butane, would be to winterize it. . There is a section on here on how to do it . Keep in mind Butane and 190 alcohol are opposite polarities... so if you put your oil into alcohol... any Butane residuals will immediately exit since they can not exist in the semester environment. . Winterizing also further concentrates your oil. Decarboxolating is very important ... so if the oil you have is Decarboxolated it can usually be somewhat spotted by how viscous the oil is.... but is in no way a perfect test... Furthermore if the oil is properly purged... it will absolutely work for cancer patients... I've done it... personally no heard about it... so you're safe... Hope that helps Sppete13
could you explain in exquisite detail why de carbing it is so important?
BHO invented by me can be completely purged in a vacuum oven or a rotavap, confirmed many times by NMR test, the best
hey indra i have some questions for you if possible shoot me a message and let me know if you are into helping me out with a few answers. your knowledge is much appreciated sir
We are easily been able to remember who those people were. If we consider the role of news channel and printing house, they are the main players who provide us deep knowledge of the happenings in country including the international news. People's intentions should always be questioned when money is involved.
[…] as seen appropriate but of course read as much as you can and do yourself a favor and read Skunk Pharm’s Butane Safety Article immediately after […]
[…] https://skunkpharmresearch.com/butane-safety/ I shared a few tips on how to extract using flammable solvents like butane, without immolating […]
[…] https://skunkpharmresearch.com/butane-safety/ Reply With […]
Does anyone know if S.T. Dupont Butane is any good ? http://www.elegantlighters.com/product-p/dupgasx.htm ... I cant find a MSDS however ive been told its 96% and my current 5x is 95% on its MSDS... So just hoping someone has used it can confirm if its good? Thanks.
No insight.
Hello GW ES and family.... Wanted to share a couple links: http://capitalbutane.com/ That is a link to a new company IN AMERICA... that uses N-butane and then iso-butane as a propellant in place of propane and they claim to be the cleanest... all info on their site... http://www.4aceswholesale.com/ This is a great resource for Vaporizing Nails and Glasswork and basically anything in a head shop... I dont think they have minimum orders and Ive been to their warehouse in bakersfield cali so I know they are legit... They have K.O. Domeless nails for $25..... As soon as I possibly can I will come up to visit.... I have A LOT to tell you and share! Much Love~! SPPETE
Thanks Pete, but not as clean as Lucienne and some others by actual testing.
Awesome! I should have expected you already knew :-)
so i just was turned on to this knowledgeable community from a friend who swears by you guys. he wants me to have the ability to outsource questions to a team who's truly honest and who's in the industry for the patients and the medical benefits cannabis posses. I have been making concentrates for a year now and the unthinkable happened. during my C4H10,R100 or butane hahaha and this was commercial butane(n-butane) obtained by a friend who uses it in his business and he likes my medical salves and tinctures for his back pain, fare trades lolz :). I was using a simple flow through method and collecting in the pyrex dish when it combusted. I was outside being as safe as i could. after a detailed inspection of the cause if ignition, seemed to be a short in my chemistry grade hot plate? or possibly static shock?. but after it caught fire the flames reached my 10ft ceiling and it was starting to concern me about the fire hazard, I was in a very large, wide garage attached to my home. so i proceeded to try and smother it with a piece of plywood to try to save the medicine .but it wouldn't go out so i left it covered and ran to get my ABC fire extinguisher (active compounds go as followed) the msds says it is Ammonium Hydrogen Sulfate. it exists as a mixture of powder, it did not seem to dissolve in the non polar butane but has made a very thick goo of oil and Ammonium Hydrogen Sulfate which leads me to believe that its "AHS" is Polar or water miscible in the best scenario. (**** so my plea for help is how would you go about removing this foreign compound that is Ammonium Hydrogen Sulfate "AHS" from a butane concentrate. i'm a hobby botanist and would like the simple way if it is safe, a intermediate fix or a advanced way but I'm looking to not spend more 50$ so i can keep cost low and pass it on the the patients if its safe. thank you for you deliberation. from Oregon to skunk pharm with respect.
HI. I need to say thank you like so many others here. The information here is astounding...life changing for me as I make my own meds. Personally, I am deeply deeply grateful for your work as well as your sharing so freely. Thank you so much. My question is this and it just baffles me. In the end the concentrates are often not vaped or consumed, but placed on a nail that has been heated with a butane torch (inside usually). While this all looks good and works very well, does the indoor butane exposure from a torch cause any health issues. I have just tried this and yes it works very very well :)-- however I have also turned on a fan to blow the fumes from the torch out the window. Do you feel comfortable commenting on this practice and it's safety? Thank you. Peace to You.
The byproducts of butane are CO2 and water vapor. Incomplete combustion can produce CO.
Has anyone ever used sparks butane. I saw them at hemp con and tried a can with good results. They gave me a too good to be true price and I was interested in checking on the quality of the product.
No we haven't, but you can test it yourself by reviewing their MSDS sheet for content, and then spraying half a can or so, on a mirror to see what is left behind. It it is suitable butane for our purposes, only paraffin will be left behind, which will be odorless and mostly tasteless. Sniff and taste the deposit for the presence of ethyl mercaptans. If excessive wax is left behind, but the contents are otherwise OK per the MSDS, you can winterize the extraction afterwards and remove the paraffin at the same time that you remove the plant waxes.
[...] Some light reading to get you started and then feel free to ask questions. http://skunkpharmresearch.com/butane-safety/ http://skunkpharmresearch.com/bho-extraction/ Reply With [...]
[...] attached link on butane safety, followed by the one on various methods of extracting with butane. http://skunkpharmresearch.com/butane-safety/ http://skunkpharmresearch.com/bho-extraction/ As Guz notes, for bragging rights quality, breaking [...]
[...] starting with not imolating oneself. Also one explaining how chlorophyll may be picked up. http://skunkpharmresearch.com/butane-safety/, and http://skunkpharmresearch.com/bho-extraction, plus [...]
Is this the same person who wrote a similar threat last year? keep up the good work. Your handling it well. :)
Same post, it was just bumped by a new reader. They actually never came back under the same name, though we have had some folks with secondary agendas attempting to disrupt us. Alas, as hard as we try and as much as it means to us, none of us heah, or our MMJ cause are uniformly popular. On the other hand, you can tell a lot about a person or organization by their enemies, as well as their friends. Thanks for the good thoughts! GW
What happened with the cease and desist?
No further response from them, under the same e-addy. GW
Keep up the excellent work, and don't let the SOB's try to 'scare' you! We patient's, are behind what you are doing, and although we have not ever met yet, I so appreciate all your research, help, and compassion. THANK YOU and KEEP UP the great work!
Ohmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 GW
Classic scare technique. Such Bullshit. This is important information, extracts are the only way we are going to prove this can be used as an effective medicine. Keep up the good work. Sick people appreciate You.
You gotta love jealous people who don't want information freely shared. Especially when they claim patent infringement without stating a patent number or what the [alleged] patent is supposedly for. Threats from profiteers - how typical.
Possibly a hunger for attention! Some folks get their esteem of self, from esteem of others. They know what they are inside, so esteem of self without the praise of uninformed others is not possible. Often they are just regurgitating missinformation from others with an agenda, who use their stupidity, ignorance and gullibility for their own personal gain. I suspect that to be the case with "loose", as he was even making up new words, suggesting little previous thought or investigation. His/her inability to formulate a complete sentence or spell, also suggests little carryover from even grades 1 through 6. The real question is not what or who these village idiots are, but who is pulling their chains and why. There are course commercial interests, LEO, misguided zealots, jealousy, etc, to choose from, so I mostly just lump them all together as misguided and pray for their enlightenment. Ohmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
classic! i was going to send the same thing to you guys about all the information you are sharing to the masses... oh wait, i benefit from it too :P