Passive Butane Extractor and Reclaimer
What if you want to make your own BHO and reclaim your butane, but don’t have the money to assemble a Terpenator? See: http://skunkpharmresearch.com/projects/
What if you have lots of time, but limited financial resources?
A simple system like the Tamisium Essential Oils Extractor comes to mind, but while of quality design and manufacture, they certainly aren’t cheap.
I started looking at passive butane recovery, which simply requires that the extraction pot be in hot water, and the recovery pot in an ice bath. I even designed a simple minded system from scratch, so as to get the price down, but alas, local machine shop costs still made it expensive and outside the resources of most maw and pa patients on fixed income.
Hee, hee, hee, a serendipitous order mistake at Glacier tank almost gave me a wet leg, because I had previously asked for 6″ diameter sanitary spools, and was told that they were not available. As fate would have it, they did order a number of them on a special order, which fell through, and I was able to score four 6″ X 12″ 304 SS sanitary spools for $105 apiece. Ahwoooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
The spools are 12″ long, so one is enough material to make the two tanks required, simply by cutting them in two pieces and welding on new bottoms.
I also grabbed two end plates, and tri-clamps, so that the two tanks will have tops, as well as a 1 1/2″ tri-clamp ferrule, and a 1 1/2″ tri-clamp to 1/4″ female NPT adapter, plus the two 1 1/2″ tri-clamps.
I grabbed a 1 1/2″ spool 6″ long for the column, which should hold about an ounce of dried prime bud, that has been sized and the sticks removed.
I picked up three 1/4″ stainless ball valves at Paramount Supply, along with two 1/4″ NPT 304 stainless half couplings.
For bottoms to the tanks, I ordered 1/2″ X 6.5″ diameter 304 blanks laser cut from plate, and dropped the parts off at a retired friends machine shop to have them machined to shape, as well as mill the holes in the 6″ end plates for the 1 1/2″ ferrule and the two 1/4″ half couplings.
Pictures when those return, but until then, here is my simple minded conceptual:
Little Terp Parts List
|
No |
Item |
PN |
Qty |
Price |
Cost |
Source |
| 1 | 1/4 male flare to male NPT | JB-A31484 | 3 | $8.28/5 | $8.28 | RSD |
| 2 | 1/4″ 304SS Ball valve 1000# | 34-92303 | 3 | $12.05 | $36.15 | http://www.paramountsupply.com |
| 3 | 1/4″ 304SS close nipple | 34-06105 | 3 | $0.54 | $1.62 | Paramount Supply |
| 4 | 1/4″ 304SS 1/2 coupling | 34-07136 | 2 | $0.71 | $1.42 | Paramount Supply |
| 5 | 1 1/2″ End cap X 1/4″ Fe NPT | NPT25-FM | 1 | $10.95 | $10.95 | http://www.GlacierTanks.com |
| 6 | 1 1/2″ Tri-clamp | CSH-1500 | 2 | $5.90 | $11.80 | Glacier Tank |
| 7 | 1 1/2″ X 6″ Sanitary spool | SP-150-006 | 1 | $29.00 | $29 | Glacier Tank |
| 8 | 1 1/2″ Tri-clamp weld ferrule | F150-28 | 1 | $3.90 ea | $3.90 | Glacier Tank |
| 9 | 6″ Sanitary spool end cap | Cap-600 | 2 | $35/ea | $70 | Glacier Tank |
| 10 | 6″ Tri-clamps | CSH-600 | 2 | $25.27 | $50.54 | Glacier Tank |
| 11 | 6″ X 12″ Sanitary spool | Sp-600-012 | 1 | $105 | $105 | Glacier Tank |
| 12 | Tank bottom blanks | N/A | 2 | $32 ea | $64 | Moody Machine |
| 13 | 1 1/2″ Buna-N seals and 20 mesh screens | N/A | 2 | $15.90 | $31.80 | http://www.BreweryGaskets.com |
| 14 | 6″ Buna-N seals | W181663 | 2 | $14.92 | $29.84 | SustainableSupply.com |
| 15 | 1/4″ X 36″ Refrigeration hose | 1 | $51 | $24.95 | Northwaysmachinery | |
| 16 | Total | $479.25 |
GW
Lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I picked up the parts for the new passive butane recovery system from the machine shop today and will drop them off at the welders tomorrow.
Couldn’t resist mocking up some shots of the components stuck together, before actual welding. As you can see from the pictures, the tanks are both made from the same 6″ X 12″ sanitary spool, which I scored from Glacier Tank. I had them cut into two pieces, to make the wrappers and triclamp closures for both tanks.
The bottoms were laser cut from 1/2″ 304SS By BBC Steel in Canby, and were machined by Moody Machining inMilwaukie. Besides a clean up cut on all exposed surfaces, the bottoms were grooved to accept the tank wrappers.
The collection tank lid has two holes cut in it, to receive a 1/4″ 304SS half coupling and a 1 1/2″ Triclamp weld coupling.
The butane recovery tank lid was machined to receive a 1/4″ 304SS half coupling.
The rest are all screw together parts! Hee, hee, hee………………..
More after welding and a test run! Ahwooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!1
6-3-12
Lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu!!!!!!!!!! Hee, hee, hee, the welded parts are back and Gibson aerospace welding did a gorgeous job as usual!
Once a weld engineer for a metal fabrication company, I was certified as a ASTME Section IX boiler code welder, but with a cataract on one eye, I have no fine depth perception, and eschew welding until I get it fixed.
Even though Gibson’s is not certified to Section IX boiler code, he is certified to numerous aerospace welding specifications that are as restrictive, or more so, and one of the best TIG welders that I met in my professional career.
He sure does purdy work too and noted that the material welded exceedingly clean and was a pleasure joining the two 304 SS components using 309SS wire.
The collection tank is welded inside and outside, so there are no internal seams or cracks, but the butane recovery tank is welded only on the outside. None of the other welds actually required outside welds, but we welded both sides, to give them a more finished appearance.
Lookee:
I bolted it all together and will boil the system in hot water and detergent today, to get it ready for when the backordered 6″ clamp arrives, so I can try it out. Probably play with the extractor half using a pump until then, snicker, snark, snort………….
|
No |
Item |
PN |
Qty |
Price |
Cost |
Source |
| 1 | 1/4 male flare to male NPT | JB-A31484 | 3 | $8.28/5 | $8.28 | RSD |
| 2 | 1/4″ 304SS Ball valve 1000# | 34-92303 | 3 | $12.05 | $36.15 | http://www.paramountsupply.com |
| 3 | 1/4″ 304SS close nipple | 34-06105 | 3 | $0.54 | $1.62 | Paramount Supply |
| 4 | 1/4″ 304SS half coupling | 34-07136 | 2 | $0.71 | $1.42 | Paramount Supply |
| 5 | 1 1/2″ End cap X 1/4″ Fe NPT | NPT25-FM | 1 | $10.95 | $10.95 | http://www.GlacierTanks.com |
| 6 | 1 1/2″ Tri-clamp | CSH-1500 | 2 | $5.90 | $11.80 | Glacier Tank |
| 7 | 1 1/2″ X 6″ Sanitary spool | SP-150-006 | 1 | $29.00 | $29 | Glacier Tank |
| 8 | 1 1/2″ Tri-clamp weld ferrule | F150-28 | 1 | $3.90 ea | $3.90 | Glacier Tank |
| 9 | 6″ Sanitary spool end cap | Cap-600 | 2 | $35/ea | $70 | Glacier Tank |
| 10 | 6″ Tri-clamps | CSH-600 | 2 | $25.27 | $50.54 | Glacier Tank |
| 11 | 6″ X 12″ Sanitary spool | Sp-600-012 | 1 | $105 | $105 | Glacier Tank |
| 12 | Laser cut 304SS tank bottom blanks | N/A | 2 | $33.50 | $67 | BBC Steel |
| 13 | 1 1/2″ Buna-N seals and 20 mesh screens | N/A | 2 | $15.90 | $31.80 | http://www.BreweryGaskets.com |
| 14 | 6″ Buna-N seals | W181663 | 2 | $14.92 | $29.84 | SustainableSupply.com |
| 15 | 1/4″ X 36″ Refrigeration hose | 1 | $24.95 | $24.95 | Northwaysmachinery | |
| 16 | Sub Total parts | $482.25 | ||||
| 17 | Machine tank bottoms 30 minute | 2 | $60 | J Moody & Co | ||
| Part spool | 1 | $15 | ||||
| Port top plates | 2 | $45 | ||||
| $120 | ||||||
| 18 | Weld and blend components | $75.00 | Gibson Welding | |||
| 19 | Total parts and outside labor | $727.25 | ||||
| 20 | 5% Contingency | $36.36 | ||||
| 21 | Grand total est. cost for Little Terp | $763.61 |
Lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I just learned that Glacier Tank has some 6″ diameter X 6″ long sanitary spools due in this month, which you could make a tank out of just by using another end plate and a clamp for the bottom. The only welding would be for the plumbing fittings. Hee, hee, hee, snicker, snark, snort!!!!!!!!!!
GW
7-20-12
Hee, hee, hee, snicker, snark, snort, awhooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!1 Ah just loves it when a plan comes together.
Here is the first cleaning run on the Lil Terp, and as you can see, it works slick! I wish I could say I pulled this one out of my nether regions, but alas, I did not. Hats off to the inventor of the Tamisium, for his insight in using passive recovery in this application!
Since this was a cleaning run, after I washed everything in denatured alcohol and then boiled it out in hot water and detergent, we ran donated mixed trim destined for topical application.
I installed the 1 1/2″ X 12″ column, which held approximately 2 ounces of material, after first packing in two wadded up coffee filters, against the 20 mesh screen at the end of the column, and two more on top of the material, between it and the top 20 mesh screen.
I started out by weighing the collection vessel, which weighed 15 pounds 3 ounces. I then calculated the internal capacity of the 6″ diameter X 5″ tall collection tank as 141 cubic inches.
I calculated that 141 cubic inches of water at .0361 lbs/inch cubed, times the .601 specific gravity of butane, would weigh about 3 pounds, so an 80% fill would weigh about 2.4 pounds. That means that 2 pounds 7 ounces is a maxim fill, to allow for hydraulics with temperature changes.
Next I pumped the supply tank down to -29.9hg and after soaking it in an ice water bath for about thirty minutes, sat it on a refrigerant scale to establish the 15 pound, 3 ounce tare.
I then connected it by hose to the dip tube of a butane supply tank and filled it to a total weight of 17.1 pounds.
Next I connected the collection vessel to the supply tank by hose, and sat the collection vessel and column in ice water. I held the supply tank upside down and opened both valves, so that the butane flowed through the material in the column, and collected in the collection vessel.
After a couple of minutes, I weighed the supply tank, and it again weighed 15 pounds, 3 ounces, so I shut all the valves and disconnected the hose. A minimal amount of butane was lost when I disconnected the hose.
Next I turned the collection tank upside down, so that the butane again saturated the material in the column, and flipped it about four or five times for about 30 minutes, including the final setting the column upright and letting the it drain.
I then connected the recovery vessel and the supply tank by hose, and sat the recovery vessel in a 109.4F hot water bath in an electric soup pot, and the supply tank in an ice water bath.
I kept track of the temperature of the fittings on top of the recovery tank and the supply tank with a laser pyrometer, and when the temperature of the fitting on top of the collection tank was 98F and the fitting at the top of the supply tank was 31.1F, I again weighed the supply tank, and found it again weighed 17.1 pounds.
Except for the losses when we disconnected hoses, recovery was 100%, and the losses were not measurable by weight. I disconnected the system and opened up the collection vessel, to find the attached scene.
Even though I used trim set aside for topical and it was a cleaning run, after inspecting it for petrochemical contaminants with a black light, I still had to taste some and though the material it was extracted from was aged and dried enough to have little floral undertones, it still had a clean crisp hashy flavor.
There were no contaminants revealed under black light, so looks like the system is clean and tomorrow we will have to get serious with some bud! Hee, hee, hee………………
9-24-12
Lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The 6″ X 6″ sanitary spools came in, so here is a new parts list, as well as a picture of the Mk III prototype construction underway using one.
|
No |
Item |
PN |
Qty |
Price |
Cost |
Source |
| 1 | 1/4 male flare to male NPT | JB-A31484 | 3 | $8.28/5 | $8.28 | RSD |
| 2 | 1/4″ 304SS Ball valve 1000# | 34-92303 | 3 | $12.05 | $36.15 | http://www.paramountsupply.com |
| 3 | 1/4″ 304SS close nipple | 34-06105 | 3 | $0.54 | $1.62 | Paramount Supply |
| 4 | 1/4″ 304SS 1/2 coupling | 34-07136 | 2 | $0.71 | $1.42 | Paramount Supply |
| 5 | 1 1/2″ End cap X 1/4″ Fe NPT | NPT25-FM | 1 | $10.95 | $10.95 | http://www.GlacierTanks.com |
| 6 | 1 1/2″ Tri-clamp | CSH-1500 | 2 | $5.90 | $11.80 | Glacier Tank |
| 7 | 1 1/2″ X 6″ Sanitary spool | SP-150-006 | 1 | $29.00 | $29 | Glacier Tank |
| 8 | 1 1/2″ Tri-clamp weld ferrule | F150-28 | 1 | $3.90 ea | $3.90 | Glacier Tank |
| 9 | 6″ Sanitary spool end cap | Cap-600 | 4 | $35/ea | $140 | Glacier Tank |
| 10 | 6″ Tri-clamps | CSH-600 | 4 | $25.27 | $101 | Glacier Tank |
| 11 | 6″ X 6″ Sanitary spool | Sp-600-012 | 2 | $97 | $194 | Glacier Tank |
| 12 | 1 1/2″ Buna-N seals and 20 mesh screens | N/A | 2 | $15.90 | $31.80 | http://www.BreweryGaskets.com |
| 13 | 6″ Buna-N seals | W181663 | 2 | $14.92 | $29.84 | SustainableSupply.com |
| 14 | 1/4″ X 36″ Refrigeration hose | 1 | $51 | $24.95 | Northwaysmachinery | |
| 15 | Total | $624.71 |
GW
Posted by Woody Oilmaker on May 17, 2013 at 12:06 PM
I am very interested in building one of your extractors. I am just trying to figure out which is the best one for me. I want to use the 1 1/2″X 24″ colum to run at least 1/4lb at a time. It would be great to be able to do more. What do you suggest?
Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on May 18, 2013 at 5:53 AM
The Lil Terp can run a 1.5X24″ column, which holds about 157 grams of 10 mesh material, or about .35 pounds.
Posted by Woody Oilmaker on May 21, 2013 at 7:54 PM
Ok. I am going to make it a small hobby to start collecting all of the parts for the Lil Terp! Yiphaaaaa! (that was my first Skunk Pharm style cheer!) I am positive that I will have a ton of question as my parts start comming in. Thank you!
Posted by CrispyBrofy on April 22, 2013 at 3:39 PM
Got everything in except my my 6″ gaskets. WHoOOhoo! and I got another question: Do I need lubricant on the gaskets for them to seal properly? Thank You.
Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on April 24, 2013 at 3:01 PM
No lubricant needed, but do keep the clean.
Posted by andrew on April 17, 2013 at 2:05 PM
What sort of return are you getting. obviously more that 10% ?
Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on April 18, 2013 at 6:52 AM
Record AA was 28.1% and worst was 5.7%. We average between 20 and 25% on most of our indoor strains, with our high CBD strains closer to 18%..
Posted by joe on April 11, 2013 at 1:32 PM
Me and my pops are entertaining the idea of building a butane recovery system. My pops works for a fabrication company and has the know how and access to equipment.
My question is, is it possible to use stainless steel pressure cookers as our collection and recovery tanks?
Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on April 12, 2013 at 5:47 PM
Pressure cookers are only rated at 15 psi, so I wouldn’t suggest it. A stainless paint pot works well.
Posted by CrispyBrofy on April 7, 2013 at 2:31 PM
Hello again. I have another question then I think I got this. Do I need a Buna-N seal for every tri-clamp connection point including the bottom endcap? (I’m using your latest design for minimal welding)
Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on April 8, 2013 at 9:55 AM
I would use Buna-N or Viton for all of the seals. Viton if you are washing the pot out, or cleaning the seals with alcohol. Teflon will work, but it’s durometer is too hard for many folks to get a good gas tight seal without using a wrench and stripping threads.
Posted by William Draghi on April 5, 2013 at 9:50 PM
Your information is second to none!! I had a quesiton as i am in the process of building one of these now. If i am going to use a 6 x 6 spool for the solvent tank, extract recovery tank, and extra solvent recovery tank, what would be the maximum column size you would suggest not exceding?
Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on April 7, 2013 at 8:14 AM
For passive, you don’t have to worry about bursting bubbles near the pump intake under vacuum, so ostensibly it would work up to an inch or so of full, but would be pretty slow.
The tank has about 155 cubic inch capacity, so at a 4 or 5:1 ratio, the most efficient maximum size would probably be a 1.5 X 24″ column.
Posted by CrispyBrofy on April 3, 2013 at 8:19 PM
Are the 2 sections of 1 1/2″ spool clamped together simply for holding more material at once? And if so would an 18″ spool work just as well? (is the 6″ x 6″ collection tank large enough)
Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on April 4, 2013 at 6:38 AM
The tank is large enough for an 18″ column, but the reason for the separate 6″ column, is so that you can run a 6″ column of kif if you so desire.
Posted by ballsagnaftw on March 30, 2013 at 10:16 AM
Luckily for me there is a lot of buildings here going for cheap per square foot. I was just looking at a 20000sq/ft facility that listed for $15k, it’s in a less desirable industrial area on the east side of Detroit, but still would be a steal, though I will probably throw more at the building and end up somewhere a little nicer. Still hoping to secure 10-20k square for the right price. Lately I’ve been brainstorming methods for a little more automation, especially in the area of refining the product. I used to work in plastic manufacturing, specifically in hdpe injection molding, and think that would be a good place to draw ideas from, specifically in the area of hoppers used for loading the barrel, and potentially a piston to pack the material to desired pressure. I was thinking of the possibility of using an 8″ column, with thermocouples on it, much like the barrel on an injection molding machines to heat it during extraction, long soak times to pull everything out, and then working out a refining process to remove all the extra impurities. Being able to isolate cannabinoids and terpenes would be slick, especially if you could formulate particular profiles for certain patients. I’ve got some hobbyist organic chem background, so I’m familiar with equipment and certain procedures, but I think I’m going to have to hit the books again and maybe enroll back in school to advance my knowledge. Have you guys given any thought to isolating certain cannabinoids?
Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on April 2, 2013 at 9:27 AM
$15k for a 20,000 sq/ft building would be a gift around here!
Good idea! We’ve had similar thoughts on automating the loading, using a hopper with a bin shaker or auger feed and a pneumatic ram.
Joe is working on isolating the individual cannabinoids and terpenes, using chromatography for separation and light refraction to switch the stream from the column as the different constituents emerge.
Posted by ballsagnaftw on April 4, 2013 at 2:02 PM
Yea that building is a little too hood, but there is a huge surplus of commercial buildings in my area, for a hopper I just tape a 5 gallon water jug, the water cooler kind, same diameter as my column, lucked out using the 2″, and use a PVC with cap as packing rod, I just tape the jug with packing tape and pack it, I’ve got to stand on a small ladder but it works. I’m sure you could DIY an adapter with a funnel and cut to size for your column size.
Posted by ballsagnaftw on March 28, 2013 at 10:45 PM
I got my machine out of the shop the other night, pressure tested at the shop to 100psi, and immediately took it home to get to work. Cleaned it out thoroughly, froze supply tank, which is 6″x10.5″ filled it with a case of vector, refroze, purged off the majority of non-compressible gases. Loaded the column, it holds 350g, first run with a few inverts yielded 36g of nice clear yellow/orange shatter. I could have gotten a cleaner golden color, but I had my helper crush it up a bit as he loaded it and he went a little to fine at first. It is looking like a 3 or so hours of work in the process, which will be shorter once I get my new vac pump, and instrument/lab grade n-butane. Can’t thank you enough, this machine is slick. Pics will follow as soon as I get some downtime. I’m hoping to buy a commercial facility to build out a lab that is spec’d for working with flammable solvents in this manner. I was scoping your guys gas chromatograph machine and I’m very envious. I am going to be keeping my eyes opened for a used ones soon as I get caught up…
Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on March 29, 2013 at 9:49 AM
Lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu!!!!!!!!!!!1 Good job! Ah just loves it when a DIY plan comes together! Look forward to your pictures!
Good luck on your lab! We have been slowly piecing one together a piece at a time and are close to there.
Sure wish we had started with a bigger footprint, as everything is getting cozy.
Posted by ballsagnaftw on March 30, 2013 at 10:36 AM
My machine… http://imgur.com/ljAp3op.jpg
Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on April 2, 2013 at 9:28 AM
Hee, hee, hee, good job! Look forward to your results!
Posted by CrispyBrofy on March 26, 2013 at 1:54 PM
I just ordered a 12 pack case of vector butane. Would it be possible to fill the supply/recovery tank with the right fitting, or do I need a butane tank? and do you think a hand vacuum pump would be sufficient for achieving -29.9hg? Thank you much for any advice.
Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on March 27, 2013 at 6:27 AM
Yes, you can fill a supply tank by chilling the tank and squirting the butane into it from the can. You can make an adapter by drilling a 1/8″ hole in a 1/4″ flare fitting cap.
You would then typically chill the butane to below 30F and burp off the atmosphere and propane.
You could do the initial tank evacuation with a hand pump and strong forearms, but not cold boiling. You can also use a faucet vacuum aspirator down to about -28.5, which is low enough to work.
If you are doing any serious alchemy, might I suggest picking up a cheap single stage vane pump?
Posted by CrispyBrofy on March 27, 2013 at 4:34 PM
Thank You! I’ll go with your advice and get a single stage vane pump.
Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on March 28, 2013 at 8:11 AM
Welcome!
Posted by Passive Butane Extraction and Recovery System. - Weed Watch Magazine Forums - A Marijuana 420 Publication for Stoners | Powered by Cannabis on March 21, 2013 at 8:06 PM
[...] onto a thread at ICmag, that led back to a home made kit called the "lil terp" posted on skunkpharmresearch.com where they sourced out all the parts to make your own for about $600 and change. so who doesn't [...]
Posted by ballsagnaftw on March 15, 2013 at 11:46 AM
So everything is on its way after some slight hassle about glacier having inventory on their website that was not in their warehouse. They did not have my 6″x6″ spool, 2″x36″ spool, 2″ single hinge clamps, but they upgraded me to double hinge clamps, 2″x12″ and 2″x24″ spools with gasket and clamps at no added charge. Which works better for me as now i have the three different column configurations I really wanted. The 6″x6″ spool was a mistake as I can see now anyways. I had originally thought your lil terp had a 1.5″x36″ column for some reason so I thought upping to 2″ wouldn’t be a huge issue. Either way now I’m getting sent a 6″x24″ spool that my friends are going to cut and weld to the two 6″ ferrules I ordered. I really don’t think I’m going to be using them for too long as I’m going to get a binks pot within a few weeks and appion unit. I’m going to be doing a little math here shortly to figure out what the best sizes to cut that 6×24″ spool will be, it’s not ideal for surface area for the recovery, but it’s ideal for my pockets at this time. My only concern is possibly having oil run through the recovery line if there is not enough head room, but I think I may be ok. I may just fill a little less butane. my material will get two runs, one for clean oil, then a warm run to pull some oil suitable for edibles or topicals, just to make sure I get everything out.
Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on March 16, 2013 at 8:53 AM
Yeah, Specialized Formulations probably bought the last of their 6 X 6″ spools and their last container from China was rejected by US Customs after finding a beetle, and sent back to China.
Good for Glacier for working with you! I like that about them!
Paramount was able to supply some of the missing parts, but not all, so some of Specialized Formulations customer orders are also awaiting parts.
Good luck with your project! Look forward to seeing and hearing how it turns out!
Posted by ballsagnaftw on March 20, 2013 at 1:02 PM
Everything is scheduled to arrive tomorrow, my fabrication friends are on night shift so should be able to get it in and out of the shop tomorrow night. I’m loaded down with material for the foreseeable future. I had one slight oversight, which was not having a 2″ ferrule for the end plate that attaches the collection tank to the column, so for a short period of time I’m going to be using a 1/2″ half coupling on the end plate, with close nipple, to 1/2″ npt to flare adapter to 1/2″ female flare swivel coupling to connect the column to collection vessel. I look forward to upgrading this system soon with a binks pot and appion unit.
I had seen some people using syringe filters for materials contaminated with mold/mildew, one person was enquiring if I could run his material, winterize it, and filter it, and I was curious if there is something slightly larger than those syringes available that anyone knows of? I’d prefer to not even work with material with contaminants, but its a good friend that’s trying to prevent total loss of his meds..
Posted by ballsagnaftw on March 20, 2013 at 1:12 PM
Actually disregard the question about filtration, read up your section on polishing extract.
Posted by MedicalCannabis Spain on March 8, 2013 at 11:06 AM
Great info and I applaud your stance on trying to be economical with peoples funds. I need some new equipment myself and will be exploring more of your review type posts. Any thoughts on products from Eden labs? I was considering a coldfinger type apparatus.
Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on March 9, 2013 at 2:36 PM
Cold fingers have their uses, what would you be using one to accomplish and what kind of solvent will you be using?
Posted by MedicalCannabis Spain on March 11, 2013 at 3:33 AM
Hi, actually I wrote a direct mail and you were kind enough to respond so thanks, more ‘customer focus’ from you guys
Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on March 11, 2013 at 9:01 AM
Thanks!
Posted by bigjohn on March 15, 2013 at 11:59 AM
be a tig welder for 25 years those are some nasty looking weld those welds should have been purge with argon and fully penatraited just m y 2 cent
Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on March 16, 2013 at 8:32 AM
Hi John! Thanks for sharing!
If you Tig welded for 25 years, congratulations on your steady hands and good eyesight. I was certified in GTAW, as well as GMAW to ASTME boiler code, but worked as a welding engineer as opposed to day to day welding. I used to weld my own prototypes, but alas my eyesight is now long gone and my hands are no longer steady, so I now let others weld my prototypes.
In this case an aerospace shop certified to Aerospace and Navship standards, and a welder that is only about a decade younger than MOI and whom worked for me as a welding trainer in the 80′s.
Could you share which welds are nasty looking and why? He will be broken hearted!
I agree on the argon, but all of these welds were done with a WP-20 torch under argon, as well as well as an argon shield on the backside.
I didn’t design them as full penetration joints, because they don’t have to be and it limits distortion. They are also vacuum welds, which are typically only done from one side, so as to make it easy to find leaks. Alas, skip welds on the opposing surface looked unfinished, so we added a cosmetic weld to make them purdier.
Posted by MedicalCannabis Spain on March 27, 2013 at 9:23 AM
well, they refuse to supply outside of USA, (beaurocratic bs, not their fault) no wonder the world is fooked
anyone know anyone building good equipment in Europe?
Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on March 28, 2013 at 8:20 AM
You can always get the modified parts from Specialized Formulations in the US, and pick the rest up in Europe off the shelf. Maybe at a brewery equipment supply house or sanitary food equipment supply.
Posted by j13bird on February 28, 2013 at 12:41 PM
Hey guys , love the work . I spoke with a rep from glacier tanks yesterday , he assisted me with the order below , due to a few part #s that have changed . I also upgraded to a double hinge 1 1/2 clamp for slightly more $ because of availability . I hope this helps . I have a few issues / concerns that i dont wish to share in an open forum , if you could send me an email i can send my contact info or send yours to me with best contact time , again thanks
SKU: SP-600-006
TriClamp 6″ Pipe Spools 6″ Length 6″ TriClamp Ends
Price: $ 97.00/Each
Qty: 2
Sub-Total: $ 194.00
SKU: 16AMP-G600
TriClamp End Cap 6″ Stainless Steel SS304
Price: $ 42.00/Each
Qty: 4
Sub-Total: $ 168.00
SKU: 13MHM-600
TriClamp 6″ Single Hinge Stainless Steel SS304
Price: $ 29.00/Each
Qty: 4
Sub-Total: $ 116.00
SKU: SP-150-006
TriClamp 1 1/2″ Tubing Spools 6″ Length 1 1/2″ TriClamp Ends
Price: $ 29.00/Each
Qty: 1
Sub-Total: $ 29.00
SKU: 22MP-G025
NPT 1/4″ Female to 1 1/2″ TriClamp Stainless Steel SS304
Price: $ 10.95/Each
Qty: 1
Sub-Total: $ 10.95
SKU: 13MHHM-DP150
TriClamp 1 1/2″ Double Hinge Stainless Steel SS304
Price: $ 6.95/Each
Qty: 2
Sub-Total: $ 13.90
SKU: 14AMP-G150
TriClamp/Weld 1 1/2″ Ferrule Stainless Steel SS304 Length 28.6mm Length
Price: $ 3.90/Each
Qty: 1
Sub-Total: $ 3.90
SUB-TOTAL: $ 535.75
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Glacier Tanks
12518 NE Airport Way
Suite 148
Portland, Oregon 97230
USA
Ph: 503.253.5919
info@glaciertanks.com
Posted by Resinator on February 26, 2013 at 11:40 AM
Have a curious observation, wonder if anyone else has too: Using stainless steel tube for n-butane extraction produces a slightly different product in comparison to using borosilicate glass. The tube size is similar for each, and the exact same process and solvent, n-butane. The glass seems to produce a nicer looking and tasting product, so what might be responsible for the difference? A friend thought possibly micro-cracks in the stainless tube wall surface might be an issue, but they are polished inside, and no appreciable noted difference using new ss vs. well-seasoned ss. I can also make a comparison to the Tamisium which suffers more degradation from the length of time the plant material is exposed to the butane, ie takes longer to purge after left in recovery mode for hours, results are darker, and as some may know it’s a real pain to remove the “epoxy” from the bottom of the vessel without losing a quarter of it in your forearm hair.. Also was curious if anyone knows what micron size are coffee filters?
Always appreciate your thoughts and comments very much!
Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on February 28, 2013 at 8:25 AM
I suspect the darkening is more of an issue of temperature than stainless versus glass. The Tamisium uses 110F to transfer the butane and we have never retained blond temperature above about 75/80F, using a Terpenator.
I need to experiment more with the Lil Terp to see how low it will transfer the butane at, before having anything to offer on how low you might run a Tamisium. I’ve only run the Lil Terp at around the 110F mark, for a 1 hour and 45 minute recovery cycle.
When I’ve run glass columns, the butane made a single pass through the column and evaporated away so rapidly that I had to float the receiving container in a hot tap water bath, to keep ice from forming at the edges of the pool, due to evaporation. The only real heat that the oil saw, was when I subseqently finished purging residual butane.
Lastly, with either a Lil Terp, a Terpenator, or the Tamisium, you can over soak the material, and the butane will pick up some of the water present, along with some of the water solubles and an electric green tint from a small amount of chlorophyll. Folks do that less often with a single pass column, because it requires toooo much butane to want to waste it.
Posted by ballsagnaftw on February 21, 2013 at 1:16 AM
Thank you for the reply, I’m about to order my parts and was considering potentially using a 3″x36″ spool for the column. I understand that the column is typically preferred to be as narrow as possible to get as much flow to pass over the material, but was wondering if it would matter much if I would be inverting it to soak a few different times. I can’t see why it would be an issue as it would be with a single pass. If I do go with the 3″ spool, I’m going to use the 6″x12″ spools for the recovery/collection vessels. Should bring me to about 6′ with fittings, also considering putting one of their triclamp sight glasses on it for extra style points, really would love to have a viewing window but dont want to have to deal with more welding than necessary on this one, when I build a terpenator I will have my viewing window on collection vessel. One question, I know you went with flare fittings, and I know you addressed why in a forum somewhere, maybe because of refrigerant lines, or something to that effect… Any reason why it’s not a good idea for me to use qd’s on my little terp? Also, do you think with the increase in size stability may be an issue at the points of connection? When I invert to soak it will be a highly controlled rotation with me and another strong person that’s 6′+ tall with a pulley/rope attached at the center of column for safety/minimizing load during rotation..
Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on February 23, 2013 at 6:31 AM
A wider column works fine with a soak.
Typically the collection tank should hold 4 to 5 times the volume of the column and have the largest surface area for evaporation possible. You would be better off using a 10″ paint pot for that much volume, rather than a 12″ tall 6″ spool, for the larger surface area.
If you put a sight glass on it, be sure to use a compatible seal. The ones from Glacier come with a silicone rubber seal, which isn’t suitable.
No problem with quick disconnects, other than they impede and slow down the gas flow and don’t always reliably seal. Tamisium uses a Dixon qd for the purpose.
The whole thing will be tipsy, but the 3″ column connection should be plenty strong.
Posted by ballsagnaftw on March 13, 2013 at 12:05 PM
Having worked with tami’s extensively, hundreds of cycles, I understand how important surface area is with the recovery, but I’m not really sure if the relative column volume is as important with the collection vessel. I ordered my parts,and due to lack of time to postpone the project any further I went with a 2″x36″ extraction column, and 6″x6″ recovery, and 6″x6″ collection vessel. My main concern is head room for reaction @80% fill. From your math I should be able to fill with 1000g of butane, and with my column size I estimate it should hold 10oz/280g of material, which should be enough butane for a good wash. Lack of funds is preventing me from getting an asme paint pot, but soon enough I will have a bunch of different columns and will be turning the whole thing into a terpenator. I guess I’m just wondering if there’s any huge risk that ending up with 28-42g of oil in the collection res, instead of 7g would cause any problems, as far as I can tell that is the only difference between what is going on during recovery. I wouldn’t mind the extra recovery time, or using slightly less butane as 750-800g of tane should wash it well, and every load will be ran a second time, with warm butane to pull some dirtier oil suitable for edibles or topical. Any thoughts on this? I just don’t want to pull oil through my recovery line and into recovery vessel. Also what formula are you using so I can figure out how much butane the 6×6 spools will hold @80% max? Unless it’s faster for you to just tell me lol. I was going off of your 6″x5″ number to get the roughly 1000g+ figure.
Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on March 16, 2013 at 7:23 AM
Having worked with tami’s extensively, hundreds of cycles, I understand how important surface area is with the recovery, but I’m not really sure if the relative column volume is as important with the collection vessel.
I ordered my parts,and due to lack of time to postpone the project any further I went with a 2″x36″ extraction column, and 6″x6″ recovery, and 6″x6″ collection vessel.
A 2″ OD, 1.75 ID column X 36″ holds about 87 cubic inches, which is about a 56% fill of the collection tank. It should work, albeit slow, as the ratio of surface area to volume is low.
My main concern is head room for reaction @80% fill. From your math I should be able to fill with 1000g of butane, and with my column size I estimate it should hold 10oz/280g of material, which should be enough butane for a good wash.
I calculate 1223g capacity at 80%, and at 4.2 gm/cubic inch packing density, should hold about 365 grams of 10 mesh 10% moisture content material.
Lack of funds is preventing me from getting an asme paint pot, but soon enough I will have a bunch of different columns and will be turning the whole thing into a terpenator.
I guess I’m just wondering if there’s any huge risk that ending up with 28-42g of oil in the collection res, instead of 7g would cause any problems, as far as I can tell that is the only difference between what is going on during recovery.
I wouldn’t mind the extra recovery time, or using slightly less butane as 750-800g of tane should wash it well, and every load will be ran a second time, with warm butane to pull some dirtier oil suitable for edibles or topical.
Any thoughts on this? I just don’t want to pull oil through my recovery line and into recovery vessel.
A Terpenator does require more clearance between the intake and the bubbling action, and you will have less than three inches with your current design, so I would suggest getting the larger recovery vessel for the 2X36 column, or use a smaller column.
Also what formula are you using so I can figure out how much butane the 6×6 spools will hold @80% max? Unless it’s faster for you to just tell me lol. I was going off of your 6″x5″ number to get the roughly 1000g+ figure.
A 6″ ID, 5.75″ ID column 6″ tall holds approximately 155 cubic inches. Butane has a specific gravity of .601, and water weighs .0361 lbs per cubic inch, so .0361 X .601 = .0217 pounds of butane per cubic inch.
155 cubic inches X .80, X .0217= 2.7 pounds of butane.
2.7 pounds of butane X 452.8 gm/lb = 1223 grams of butane at 80% fill.
Posted by Benjamin Pelletier on March 25, 2013 at 12:28 PM
I was going to start buying parts soon as well but I had a few questions. I was going to skip the 6×12 spool for the two 6x6s (with the two clamps on top and bottom for ease of access) but does this affect the recovery, because the original system is designed to work on a 7 inch storage vessel and 5 in recovery tank? I also have a few other questions, can I email you? You are doing some really cool things here, keep it up!
Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on March 27, 2013 at 5:07 AM
There isn’t a noticeable difference between the 6″ and the 5″ lower end performance. You can email me at graywolf@skunkpharmresearch.com.
Posted by ballsagnaftw on February 21, 2013 at 12:20 AM
Thank you for the reply! About to build a 36″ column with the 2″ spool. Was going to use 36″x1.5″ but they seem to always be out of stock in those. Can’t wait for the parts to arrive. After I get it running I will be building a terpenator off of your MKiii build, or whatever is most current.
Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on February 23, 2013 at 6:32 AM
Welcome and have loads of fun!
GW
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Posted by Moses on January 10, 2013 at 9:23 PM
I’ve been doing a lot of research on the tamisium extractor and I’m definetly making one in the very near future… Thanks for all the info, very informative.. I’m really curious about using co2 with it, I need to know what kinda pump to pump the co2 to the right psi
Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on January 11, 2013 at 6:17 AM
Hi Moses,
The Tamisium is a fine extractor, but alas, it won’t do CO2 extraction. Tamisium’s owner Dave is knowlegable on his products capabilities and would be a good person to contact on the issue of CO2.
GW
Posted by NinjaKaren on January 8, 2013 at 4:46 PM
Thank you so much for posting this. I, and many others, really appreciate the effort you put in to making this possible for those of us who are a little less fortunate.
I am trying to save as much money as possible. Would the following modifications seem reasonable to you? Please feel free to correct me if you think these mods won’t work.
1) Can I drill and tap the fittings in place of welding the 1/4″ half couplings–just have the fitting screw directly into the lid instead? I don’t have a lid here to look at, but it seems like it would be thick enough to support it. The savings on labor could be pretty substantial…I’m sure there are many people who have a friend who has a drill press, but less who have a friend who is capable of welding stainless steel. Of course, the 1 1/2″ center fitting would still need to be welded, but it would still be a substantial savings.
2) For the recovery tank: yours has just under 200 cubic inches of volume. If I went with a 4″ diameter 24″ length spool instead, it would be ~300 cubic inches of volume. This would save ~$80, given the price of the lids/clamps. Is that feasible, given my intent to use/fill a 18″ column? Is there some kind of a ratio you’ve based your column/recovery tank volume?
Using the pricing available today from Glacier Tanks, the math on that assuming each recovery tank requires 2 clamps, 2 lids and 1 spool:
6″D, 12″L, t’s $239 (~200 cubic in);
4″D, 24″L it’s $157 (~300 cubic in);
3″D, 36″L, it’s $136.50. (~250 cubic in).
So if size is not an issue, you could save more than $100 using a taller, as opposed to wider, recovery tank. I suppose this could be an issue when cooling the tank, but i think the savings could outweigh the inconvenience for many, including myself. (I sure wish there was a 4″D 18″L option!)
I genuinely appreciate your efforts, and hope that these modifications will be helpful to others. If they work, the price of the “Lil Terp” could be even less!
Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on January 9, 2013 at 9:06 AM
The lids are about .440″ thick, as I recall, so you could drill and tap the exhaust port, but somehow you have to get a down tube through the lid, and since you also have the issue with the 1 1/2″ column port anyway, welding is a cheap easy solution.
Surface area is more important than volume, when it comes to recovering butane. The largest diameter spool, gives the largest surface area, and the rest of the volume is a mixed blessing. The vapor port has to be far enough away from the evaporation surface, to not be sucking up bursing bubbles from boiling butane, but the larger it is, the slower it is to recover, because of pumping inefficiencies as the internal atmosphere becomes thinner.
Posted by NinjaKaren on January 9, 2013 at 4:22 PM
Thank you for your response.
Can you explain what you mean by a down tube through the lid? I thought everything attached outside of the lid via the NPT/flare fittings? (And of course the welded 1.5″ port)
I don’t disagree with you that it would be not that much more effort to weld the other 2 ports, but given the quotes I’ve gotten for welding the 3 ports vs 1 port, there is an appreciable difference. (For me, in LA, it’s about a $50 difference.)
I think maybe I don’t understand then, how this unit functions. Do you mind answering a couple questions/correcting me?
Here’s how I thought it worked:
Plant material in column, butane/oil mixture goes into collection tank. close that ball valve, open the one to the recovery tank.
Heat up collection tank (with hot water bath) so butane becomes a gas and flows into the recovery tank, which is in an ice bath (to condense the butane).
Once the correct temperatures are reached (as indicated above), you rinse/repeat.
Where does surface area come in to play for the recovery tank? I thought you just turned it upside down and poured it back into the column? I absolutely see where it would matter for the collection tank, but am uncertain how it would affect the recovery tank.
Many thanks!
Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on January 10, 2013 at 8:31 AM
I just went back and read your original post and it looks like I had my brain on Terpenators, as opposed to the Lil Terp when I answered. Sorry for getting confused.
There is no down tube in the Lil Terp and you can easily just tap the recovery port into the .440″ thick lid, using a 1/4 NPT tap.
Both puddle surface area and the internal surface area of the storage tank come into play.
It is the puddle surface area that is boiling during recovery, and it is the surface area of the storage tank that is transferring heat from the vapor, to the ice bath. They are both linear formulas, so if you double the surface area, you double the reaction.
Posted by clowntown on September 29, 2012 at 7:26 AM
GW, that was an extremely classy response.
Thanks for all your efforts.
Much respect,
Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on September 29, 2012 at 9:19 AM
Thanks for the good thoughts!
GW
Posted by david on August 29, 2012 at 3:24 PM
Dear Sir/Mam: SkunkPharmresearch.com
This letter is to provide you with NOTICE of Pending US Patent Application
Patent Pending 61/217,911, which is owned by my client David McGhee.
You should contact your own attorney immediately.
Steven Thrasher
Thrasher Associates
391 Sandhill Drive
Richardson, TX 75080
972-918-9312; 214-291-5991 (fax)
swthrasher@gmail.com
Sincerely
Steven Thrasher
Sincerely:
David McGhee
President Tamisium Extractors Incorporated.
David@tamisiumextractors.com
TamisiumExtractors Incorporated
Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on September 2, 2012 at 7:08 AM
Hi David, Steve!
Sorry to take so long to respond, but I’ve been away on vacation.
Steve, thanks for the heads up regarding Dave’s application for a patent under Patent Pending 61/217,911! I will surely obtain a copy to see what you’ve covered.
Assuming it is eventually approved, how do you see it applying in this case, as we are not building and selling Lil Terps, we aren’t selling products made from them, nor are we even selling the information on how to build a better unit cheaper? Nothing is being sold, no profits are being made, or money exchanging hands.
We simply give away free information for the benefit of medical marijuana patients, whom are unfortunately too poor to afford your cheapest Tamisium, even in groups.
You will note that we’ve only addressed your very cheapest offering and may take heart in the knowledge that we have no plans to offer larger passive system designs, as our focus is the poor folks, and we believe the Mk II Terpenator is a more effective system for larger scale operations anyway.
I will add a disclaimer, advising followers that if they build and use a passive extraction system for uses proscribed by any patents that may be issued, that you will have legal remedy against them, in the event your patent is granted. If you would like to finely word that statement Steve, I will copy it in the disclaimer, or add a link to it.
Dave, as you will be footing the legal cost of recovering the profits made in violation of any patents granted, feel free to include your own notes.
For what its worth, I admire your simple design and quality execution. If you will share my goal of providing an affordable unit for the poor folks, albeit slow and without bells and whistles, I will not only promise to not develop further passive systems that compete with yours, I will provide Skunk Pharm Research consulting support to you for free and endorse the new product on international forums.
The free consulting will include our insights into medical marijuana needs, which you may not be aware of coming from a staunch non-medical marijuana state, where you ostensibly produce a product for general legal essential oil extractions.
As one of your loyal Te 175 customers just challenged the Lil Terp to a side by side runoff on your behalf tomorrow, consulting will also include any hands on insight we acquire using your actual product.
The big question, is can we address the poor folks needs as a team, or must this be a contest?
As a side issue, someone other than you questioned us providing links sending potential customers to your business site. No affront was intended, and as a businessman perhaps more aware of the concepts of guerilla publicity, if you don’t want the opportunity to show the folks why your system is superior to a Lil Terp from Hicksville, say the word and I will happily replace the links with instructions on how to use our unit.
Respectfully,
GW
Posted by jeff on January 8, 2013 at 11:51 AM
wow – very tactful response to a potentailly “sticky” situation— was a pleasure to read that—
Posted by zlessley on September 2, 2012 at 6:37 PM
That was impressively respectful GW, I would have just replied with “lol”!
Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on September 3, 2012 at 5:10 AM
Tattered old wolves don’t casually start fights and Dave, nor Steve have said or done anything to be disrespectful of so far. I would have objected too, were I in Daves position, and Steve is doing what he is paid to do as a personal attorney. Certainly nothing deserving of casual dismissal or personal attacks.
As for TO, who knows what the story is or why they think they have to speak for Dave?
Posted by Burning Tree on August 22, 2012 at 9:32 PM
GW,
Could you elaborate a bit on the use of a recovery pump with this system? Will it speed up the process by pumping the butane back into the recovery vessel?
Also is there a way to not have to invert the recovery vessel?
Regards,
BT
Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on August 23, 2012 at 8:36 AM
Yes. It would speed up recovery to minutes, instead of hours. Passive recovery is designed more for low volume folks, with more time than money. An Appion recovery pump, for instance, by itself costs about what it takes to build a complete Lil Terp.
As far as process, using an oil less refrigerant recovery pump like the Appion, you would hook the inlet hose of the recovery pump, onto the flare fitting in the top of the collection tank, and the discharge hose from the recovery pump to the flare fitting in the butane storage tank.
If you then opened the valves and set the collection tank in hot water and butane storage tank in icewater, recovery would be a matter of a few minutes, vis a vis 1 hour and 45 minutes for a 12″ column, running 1 lb, 14 oz of butane.
If you added a dip tube and used a recovery pump in push pull mode, you could eliminate inverting the butane storatge tank. That is how the Terpenators work.
Just adding a refrigerant valve, with both a dip tube outlet and gas outlet, might transfer the butane from the dip tube side, with the addition of heat to the storage tank, so as to build up head pressure.
You could also just add a separate dip tube port, instead of a refrigerration valve set.
Posted by bt on August 23, 2012 at 9:15 PM
GW,
You have really elucidated both devices for me now. I really appreciate your free flowing of knowledge. For me it seems easier to build the Lil’ Terp with a larger column and then use the Appion recovery pump to speed the recovery process. I will report back once I can get all the parts from glacier!
Regards,
BT
Posted by Burning Tree on August 21, 2012 at 6:32 PM
GW,
If one wanted to use a larger column to process more material per run would a larger supply tank with more butane be needed? Or can this same amount of butane be used to process a larger amount of starting material?
Regards,
Burning Tree
Posted by Burning Tree on August 21, 2012 at 6:54 PM
Or switch columns after they are fully extracted without removing the oil from the collection vessel? Is this a possible route to process more material?
Regards,
BT
Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on August 22, 2012 at 7:44 AM
We routinely process multiple columns through the Mk I Terpenator before collecting the oil, so I see no reason that the Lil Terp wouldn’t do the same thing. I would expect the recovery time to go up, as the puddle of oil deepened.
Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on August 22, 2012 at 7:42 AM
The issue with the relationship between the volume of the column and the volumn of both the collection tank and the butane storage tank, is surface area relative to depth. The more surface area relative to depth, the faster it will be, and vice versa.
The 5″ tall collection tank has about 141 cubic inches capacity, and a 1.5″ column has a capacity of about 1.77 cubic inches, per inch. That means that a 1.5″ X 79″ column would have the same volume. As that would leave no surface area exposed for the reaction to take place, something less than 79″ would be the maximum column height.
I used a 12″ column, and recovery time was 1 hour 45 minutes. Ostensibly a 24″ column might take twice as long. To reduce the time to the same, would require the same surface area, or an 8.48″ diameter tank, instead of the current 6″.
We have a 6″, 12″, 24″, and 36″ spool for trials, and will report back once we have had a chance to conduct them.
We also have a local Tamisium owner wishing to compare performance, and hopefully he will be ready soon. He is currently awaiting some enhancement parts from the factory, and I expected to already hear from him by now, so will check on his status.
Posted by Burning Tree on August 22, 2012 at 9:00 PM
Thanks for the explanation. Makes perfect sense. The 6″ x 6″ spools will be available at Glacier Tank at the end of this month the said if anyone is interested.
Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on August 23, 2012 at 7:39 AM
Lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 That is certainly good news!
GW
Posted by jamieson wagner on August 11, 2012 at 5:13 AM
sorry if i am asking too many questions i just want to make mine so i don’t have to flip it around and i saw the tamisium didn’t have that either so i did not know if that would be the smartest thing to do
Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on August 12, 2012 at 8:09 AM
The wrong question, is the one not asked. Hope I answered yours!
GW
Posted by jamieson wagner on August 11, 2012 at 5:10 AM
So if i was to put a valve there should i put a pressure gauge there and if so what should i let it get to or is the top of the collection vessel have a piece welded to attach the collection vessel top to the plant material vessel? thanks for answering back so fast.
Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on August 12, 2012 at 8:08 AM
There are no valves required beyond those at the top of the column and the top of the butane storage tank, because the pressure is contained in the column and tank. You can control the soak cycle by simply turning it upside down.
The Tamisium uses quick disconnects instead of a flare fitting and hose. The advantage to that is that you don’t have to support the butane tank upside down while you drain it.
You can screw a pressure gauge on any of the ports using a 1/4 flare fitting, to see what is going on, but I found the laser pyrometer and refrigerant scales to be the most valuable. They both tell you when the butane has transfered.
Nothing in simply running the passive process requires recording pressure, though if you are experimenting with purge temperatures, or using a recovery pump, they are sure handy. I just attach the one off the Mk I Terpenator when experimenting, using the 1/4″ flare fitting.
GW
Posted by jamieson wagner on August 10, 2012 at 12:15 PM
If you put a valve between the collection vessel and vessel so the vessel could soak would that make it more productive?
Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on August 10, 2012 at 12:59 PM
You can just turn it upside down to let the material soak.
GW
Posted by jamieson wagner on August 10, 2012 at 9:43 AM
Awesome cool idea how you made your collection i have not purchased the tamisium because of the smaller opening on the collection tank thanks for the post hope i will get up and make one
Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on August 10, 2012 at 12:59 PM
You’re welcome, thanks for the good thoughts!
GW
Posted by luc336 on July 20, 2012 at 4:44 PM
GW I love it. Thanks for putting the date on the update, it save me a lot of time. I still have a lot of material from last year that I need to process. Hopefully someone other than you can post a video on Youtube of the process, Thanks again to all of you at Skunk Pharm,
Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on July 21, 2012 at 6:38 AM
Thanks Luc! Videos in due time. We have the gear, just haven’t had the time. With so many projects coming together at once, we should have a hole in our schedule in the near future.
Posted by Marlene Jarrell on July 20, 2012 at 4:31 PM
Looks like a beauty of a tool you made. Way to go!
Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on July 21, 2012 at 6:46 AM
Thanks for the good thoughts MJ! I think we are going to have a lot of fun with this design, using it in ways that no one has tried, or fessed up to before.
Besides passive capabilities, with a recovery pump, it is a fast easy way to process small quantities for folks that don’t need the half pound capacity of the Mk II Terpenator.
Especially exciting is using it in in conjunction with a recovery pump to process fresh frozen material, so as to maximize terpene and carboxlic acid retention.
Posted by C on February 23, 2013 at 4:59 PM
Hi,
How hard would it be to hook up a recovery pump to a Lil Terp ? Could I use a 24″ column with the same cost basically of $700 in parts?
and are there plans some where for this that I can get ,or a kit ? thanks again. I would like to get a MkIIIA together but I am thinking I could afford this first. and if I got an appion pump right away then I could speed up cycles. I hope I’m not being to crisp. I just don’t want to waste your time. I love your scene here and hope to get up t ptown for a class or 5. I don’t travel much right now ,But I am working on it!
Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on February 24, 2013 at 8:04 AM
If you simply hooked the recovery pump up to the lower tank valve on the Lil Terp, it will recover the butane and leave behind the oil. If you are going to do that regularly, you probably want to go to a 3/8″ nipple and valve, vis a vis the current 1/4″, to achieve better speed.
Posted by healani on July 6, 2012 at 10:35 PM
Just stopped by to say Hi Gray! As of June 4, 2012, my dad was declared cancer free! Thanks for all your informative posts! Tallulahgirl
Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on July 7, 2012 at 5:36 AM
Whoop, whoop, lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu lu!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Hee, hee, hee, that is what this is all about!!!!!!!!!!
Bless both you and your dad and thanks for sharing sister woman!
Posted by salmontess on July 6, 2012 at 8:04 AM
Hey there mentioned in another comment I have a tamisium, it would be real interesting to do extractions and recovery side by side with to see if there was any noticeable difference in any way, keep up the good work.
Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on July 6, 2012 at 9:39 AM
Please check your e-mail!
GW
Posted by ommp pay it forward on July 4, 2012 at 3:06 PM
Your site always is always updating its material every time I come here you have new photos and explanations on your processes. Thanks for keeping the site active and informative.
Posted by Passive Butane Extraction and Recovery « Skunk Pharm Research LLC on July 4, 2012 at 10:37 AM
[...] Passive Butane Extractor and Reclaimer [...]
Posted by garhart aka Gary R. Butler on July 2, 2012 at 3:25 PM
I have been contemplating reaching out for a used Parr Bomb on Ebay and modifying it. This is the more direct route. Very, Very nice. Have to say that I admire your looking out for patients on fixed incomes. I will look forward to hearing how it turns out for you.
Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on July 3, 2012 at 5:09 AM
Thanks bro! Watch this space!
Posted by ballsagnaftw on January 29, 2013 at 8:06 AM
Hey Gray, I’m inquiring about the volume of recovery/collection vessel volume if I were to increase the column size to accommodate 400g to make sure there is enough butane to wash the material in one pass. I own a 2oz tamisium, and for 56-60g of material it holds 300 or so g of butane. I was thinking of using 2″ column to save on vertical space and doing an inverted soak for a period of about 20-30 mins with about 1/2-2/3 of the butane, then washing it down with the rest that I hadnt yet released from recovery vessel. Thoughts/advice on sizing? I was thinking about going with your 6″x6″ spools, or maybe upping to 8″ if required to give me the adequate volume for the incrsed extraction column size. Looking to order parts here in the next two days if you have the time to reply, otherwise I will just scale up and bite the bullet in parts costs. Thanks for all your hard work, there’s no way I could meet the costs of the 8oz Tami and still be able to provide the same low cost meds for my patients right now. Seriously thank you so much for your commitment to helping people.
Posted by Skunk Pharm Research,LLC on January 30, 2013 at 10:02 AM
Yeah, the Tamisium patent application specifies a 4 or 5:1 ration between the storage/recovery tank volume and the column volumn, and a 3:1 ration between the diameter and height of the recovery tank.
Looking at butane saturation potential, the first ratios appear to be in the ball park. As far as the 3:1 ratio, the more surface area to depth ratio, the faster the system, because evaporation happens only at the surface.
Thanks for the good thoughts!
GW
Posted by Passive Butane Extraction & Recovery « Skunk Pharm Research LLC on June 14, 2012 at 11:37 AM
[...] Passive Butane Extractor and Reclaimer [...]