Decarboxylation

Cannabis produces phyto cannabinoids in a carboxylic acid form that are not orally active at least at the CB-1 receptor sites, because they don’t readily pass the blood brain barrier in their polar form.

To enable them to pass the blood brain barrier, they must first be decarboxylated, to remove the COOH carboxyl group of atoms, which exits in the form of H20 and CO2.

Decarboxylation occurs naturally with time and temperature, as a function of drying, but we can shorten the amount of time required considerably, by adding more heat.  The more heat, the faster it occurs, within reasonable ranges, and in fact occurs spontaneously when the material is burned or vaporized.

There is another mechanism at play however, which suggests that we need to control the decarboxylation temperatures carefully.

When we heat cannabis to convert the THCA and CBDA into THC and CBD, we are also converting THC to CBN at a faster rate.  At about 70% decarboxylation, we actually start converting THC to CBN at a faster rate than we are converting THCA to THC, so as you can see by the following graph, after about 70% decarboxylation, the levels of THC actually start to fall sharply.

That of course means that the CBN also begins to rise and the medication is becoming more sedative.

Thank you Jump 117 for this excellent graph!

Decarboxylation Graph-1-1

Decarboxylation graph

Another fly in the ointment, is that we can never know for sure exactly what the starting state of decarboxylation is, so the times at temperature shown on the graphs are an average.

We can’t expect dry material placed in an oven at any given temperature to be that uniform temperature throughout instantly upon placing it in a heated oven, nor know for sure the state of decarboxylation by simple observation.

Decarboxylating plant material, also alters the taste (roasted/toasted), which some find less agreeable, and of course decarboxylating also evaporates away the smaller Monoterpenes and Sequiterpenes alcohols, phenols, ketones, aldehydes, ethers, and esters.

The good news is that it is dirt simple to monitor the state of cannabis oil decarboxylation placed in a 121C/250F hot oil bath, because you can watch the CO2 bubble production.

Just like the curves suggest, CO2 bubble production will proceed at its own observable rate. By keeping the puddle of oil lightly stirred on the bottom and in the corners of the pot (I use a bamboo skewer), so as to keep the bubbles broken free and floating to the top, you can tell exactly when the bubble formation suddenly tapers off at the top of the curve.

That is the point that we take it out of the oil for maximum head effect, and we leave it in until all bubbling stops, if we want a more sedative night time med.

Here are a couple pictures of what oil looks like when boiling off the residual butane.  Residual butane or alcohol produces larger, randomly sized bubbles, and is fully purged, when they cease.

I am seemingly missing the middle picture of the CO2 bubbles, so I will add it later, but the second picture shows what fully decarboxylated oil looks like.

Residual solvent bubbles above:

Quiescent oil.

241 responses to this post.

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  3. Posted by Alex on March 3, 2014 at 8:23 PM

    Hello,

    My buddy and i are making a batch of brownies by makin hash infused coconut oil… I will be using a half ounce of hash and the infusion will be done by double boiling the coconut oil/water/hash mixture. With that being said do i need to decarb the hash since im pretty sure its heated when pressed? Im worried to ruin the hash. Also if the recipie calls for 350F should i lower it to 300? And how long should i boil the oil and hash together for if i can decarb that way?

  4. Hi Skunk, thanks for the great info. Question- when trying to decarb, would mixing the cannabis in Grapeseed oil at 240 F, be as effective as decarbing in the oven at the same temp/time?

  5. Posted by Joe C on February 24, 2014 at 12:53 AM

    Hi Skunk… Is there any benefit to decarboxylate bho after winterizing if one is to vaporize?

  6. […] its best to watch it decarb.. double boil extracted hash, that way http://skunkpharmresearch.com/decarboxylation/ Butane will give highest yield while still being clean.. if done properly no one would know they're […]

  7. Hi guys. Very new to all of this, so please bear with me.

    I am hoping somebody could help me produce an oil with very low THC content, and as high as possible in CBD(strains?)

    I am trying to make a tincture for my grandmother to relieve her pain, but she is worried
    about the psychotropic effects.

    Perhaps it would be better to make a tincture with oil extracted from hemp plant matter?

    I am however assuming that if I used cannabis, I could take the temperature high enough the THC would be vaporised and CBD would remain?

    Although from what I can ascertain from the graph, higher temperature for longer periods results in greater levels of CBN, a mild sedative effect is desirable, but I’m not looking for a ‘couch-locked’ grandmother….

    Does anyone know of a catalyst or process that supports CBD production, while keeping THC low?

    Many Thanks.
    Harry

  8. […] we melt the oil down through a process called decarboxylation. It activates the cannabinoids and makes them available for your receptors to bind to,” said […]

  9. […] we melt the oil down through a process called decarboxylation, it activates the cannabinoids and makes them available for your receptors to bind to,” said […]

  10. Posted by Jon Teller on January 10, 2014 at 8:42 AM

    Hello, does anybody have experience adjusting decarb temps to account for ALTITUDE? I am near Boulder, CO., at about 6000FT. It seems to me that if h20 boils at a lower temp, and ethanol (I have tested: 163.4F where I am) as well, wouldn’t the actives in my lovely buds act the same? Any counsel appreciated; I’m having only modest success with extractions and I’m plowing through expensive buds. Thanks!

  11. Posted by Ruckerson on January 3, 2014 at 8:02 AM

    Worked like a charm, I made a tincture with about 70mg of decarbed oil in 2ml of spirytus 96% Ethanol. There should be a guide on how to make an oil bath somewhere…

  12. Posted by JohnInFL on January 2, 2014 at 11:59 AM

    I have read the threads here, but I have question. I have cancer and wish to use cannabis oil for it’s anti-cancer effects. I already was given a few grams of BHO, I believe it’s a very high grade. I want to be sure I am getting the maximum benefit medically, and I have read about de-carbing the BHO. So, what would the procedure be if I have the BHO in hand and wish to make it medically better for oral use? Or is it fine as-is?

    • I’m sorry that I don’t have a solid answer to your question.

      Decarboxylation allows the THC to more readily pass the blood brain barrier to gain access to the CB-1 receptors in the brain. The CB-2 receptors are associated with the immune system and are scattered throughout the body,so there is no blood brain barrier involved.

      We’ve seen positive results from juicing raw cannabis, that could not have involved decarboxylation, but don’t have all the answers.

  13. Posted by Jdiddy on December 24, 2013 at 9:45 PM

    Hello, just a couple questions.
    1. Is there an order of refining bho meaning can you decarb before or after winterizing and can you vacuum purge after decarbing.
    2. Do you need to vacuum purge if you decarb fully at high temps.
    3. Could you please provide the optimum refining procedures to obtain clean medicinal honey that has fluid characteristics (low viscosity) at room Temperature?
    Thank you
    Jdiddy

    • If you purge in a 250F hot oil bath, you can use it boil off the alcohol and then decarboxylate. We extract, purge off the visible butane, add ethanol, freeze 48 hours at 0F, filter, boil off alcohol, decarboxylate.

  14. Posted by Johnny Cat on December 22, 2013 at 9:23 PM

    So I intend to make cannabis capsules soon using coconut oil. I’m going to do a partial decarb of the ground up buds for around 15min at an average of 235F (215F-250F as the toaster oven I have doesn’t maintain a constant temp). After infusing the oil I want to the complete the decarboxylation using the hot bath method listed above. Now a couple questions I have; The buds will be a VERY finely ground powder (It will be a 1OZ-0.80Cup oil ratio), so when it begins to “fizz” will this texture affect my ability to see the bubbles? Also Is it true that decarbing before infusion helps the release of trichromes from the plant into the oil or should I decarb after infusion only?

    Thank You.

  15. Posted by Matt on December 18, 2013 at 2:59 PM

    First off, thanks so much for all you guys are doing, your site has been an invaluable source of knowledge. I have just recently began to play with CO2 oil and hope to create a good e juice. I’ve winterised the oil and filtered it and am now waiting to evap off the alcohol if I can put together this rotovap. Do I need to decarb the oil to make it runny enough to mix with pg vg blend or will the blend make it runny enough to leave it carbed? Also do you know the proper heat and vacuum parameters to evaporate the alcohol without darkening the oil? Thanks for your time.

    • The PG/VG will make it runny without decarboxylating.

      We use -29.5″ Hg to cold boil. Ethanol boils at -17F at that vacuum level, but we use 115F so as to keep the puddle molten enough to purge the residual solvent.

  16. Hello, so i made the OIL using 96% drinking alcohol (frozen), i tried a different kind of Decarboxylation method and those are the results of the lab test – the method of testing was HPLC1,2 – THC – 68.88, THCA – undetectable, CBN – 0.6%. So it looks like i have made 99.4% of THCA Decarboxylate into THC with no conversion to CBN. what do you think? (the OIL is Cristal clear amber color).

  17. Posted by Joseph on December 17, 2013 at 4:13 PM

    If I use a vacuum oven pulled down to 29.5hg, will the time or temperature change for optimal decarboxylation?
    I actually just went ahead and tried, and watched the bubbles till they got smaller and slowed down inside the vacuum. The starting product was winterized with ethanol, mostly purged off at 115f under water aspirator vacuum (29hg), and then decarbed at 242 for almost 40 minutes, when the bubbles changed. Hopefully I didn’t hurt anything too much.

  18. Hi Carla GW Joe and all, Happy Holidays!!!
    As my wife Chouket finishes off the last week of ‘dosing up’, I thought I would recap the important stats.

    In August 2013, just before Chouket started dosing with 1 drop, she was taking 28-29 procardia LA per week ….

    As she finishes her 11 drop week, she is currently taking 20-21 procardia LA’s.

    We are still limited to Skywalker OG … THC ….. no cbd for at least 3 months … I have finally managed to get 1 Harlequin clone, at least … its a start at least ….
    The HAO she is now consuming is very slightly decarboxylated … it is mostly THCa … she for the most part doesn’t get ‘blasted’ this way … but every so often (like last night) she does get very intoxicated … would there be a good explanation for that? something we could do to prevent, or, reduce that?

    In any case the 2 months at 12 drops/day starts tomorrow … fingers crossed! More to follow!!!

  19. Posted by Quinn on December 9, 2013 at 9:24 PM

    Ive read alot of recipes for thc-caps that usually have 2 steps. First decarbing the bud (usually in an oven) and then a step where the decarbed bud is heated in the oil to activate and bind the thc to the oil.

    If I’m looking for a maximum cerebral effect from the oil and I’ve used the method you have shown for decarbing, where I decarb in the oil as opposed to an oven and wait until the C02 bubbles begin to slow do I still need more heat as in the second step to ‘activate’ the now THC.

    Im using coconut oil if this matters.

    • Posted by MryJain on December 12, 2013 at 5:30 PM

      I wonder how well it might work if you decarbed your bud first in the oven not all the way and then threw it in your hot coconut oil to finish the process and bind to the oil

      • It would work either way, but it will taste less toasty if you do it afterwards and you will retain more light terpenes.

        There is actually no binding going on. The coconut oil simply dissolves the cannabis oil and holds it in solution.

        • Posted by jake on February 22, 2014 at 9:33 AM

          If that is true, then why do people spend hours cooking coconut oil, then decarbing? I tested your theory using the decarb chart at several different temperatures. According to you, no binding time is necessary so I used a double boiler method with canola oil for my heat source and coconut oil for my solution. I tried various times and temps from the decarb chart. However, the results were pretty weak as far as rec high is concerned. However, when I did the same thing at 325 F until the plant material was pretty dark brown, I had a much more potent effect. Can you explain this?

    • No, you only have to decarb one time and no further heat is required.

  20. Posted by Jdiddy on December 6, 2013 at 4:58 PM

    Hello, I would like to decrease the viscosity of my BHO after decarboxylation and would like to know the best time to reduce heat or hold a certain temp. I’m using the oil bath method at 250 until the small bubbles appear. If decarboxylation or holding heat isn’t the answer for making a runnier oil then can you provide information on how to?

    • Decarboxylation will definitely turn your carboxylic acid shatter into a lower viscosity oil. 70% at 250F will give you the most head effect, and full decarboxylation will be the loosest oil.

  21. Posted by Jenks on December 5, 2013 at 7:39 PM

    Attempted my first decarb today which went fairly well. Used .5 BHO, placed in a egg poaching dish, in a canola oil bath at 250F. I used a fondue cooker to easily control the temp. Monitored temp with a thermometer placed in the oil. I had the BHO dish in the oil bath for approx. 30 min.

    I then used this decarbed oil to make a HOA for my father with cancer. Thanks for the info!

  22. Posted by Jenks on December 3, 2013 at 4:13 PM

    Would a Sous Vide with water temp set at 250F work to decarboxylate BHO being used in a HSO recipe? I would suspend an uncovered mason jar w/ BHO in the water until CO2 bubbles are gone.

  23. Hi All,

    I have a question about decarboxylation as it applies to my wifes medication. We are slowly dosing her up to 3 large drops, 4 times daily. We are trying to reduce or eliminate her need for blood pressure medicine, which she has needed and taken for over 30 years. Currently we are up to 10 drops a day … almost up to full dosage.

    My wife (all 100 pounds of her) is now being affected by the THC, pretty strongly … I decarboxylate her HAO fully at 250f. Her meds are made from Skywalker OG, which has virtually no CBD, btw (I am still unable to get cbd clones, sheesh). She does not enjoy being ‘blasted’ ….

    After reading some recent comments here regarding CB1 and CB2 receptors, I began thinking that maybe her meds might be just as effective, without much decarboxylation, if it is the CB2 receptors that are involved in BP

    So the question is, can I prepare my wifes meds without decarboxylating intentionally, and still get the blood pressure regulating effects?

    Ideally, in 3 or so months, CBD bearing plants can be grown and harvested, and over time the ‘blasted’ effect should come more under control, I suppose, anyway … but producing less decarboxylated meds would make her life easier for the moment.

    We are down a full 25% on her bp meds btw.

    Thank you for all your help

    Steve Weglein

    • Hi Steve!

      You can use the meds without decarboxylation and should still get the BP reduction, but the stuff will be highly unstable. Keep it sealed and in the frig when not using, because heat will decarboxylate it after the fact.

      Not sure how dropper-able it will be, but if it is too stiff, you can stuff it into caps.

      • OMG …. I made a 5g batch of Skywalker OG with a QWET process. As I cooked of a liter of everclear (used to extract 70g flowers), I am sure some decarboxylation occurred, but not much as I kept the temp moderate. When I was sure the alcohol was boiled off completely, I stopped, and when cool added the HAO ingredients. I heated the solution to 185f, stirred to make sure it was well mixed and removed from heat ….. my guess is less than 20% decarboxylated, and perhaps less than 10%!
        The resulting solution is still ‘droppable’ …. no prob there.

        The effect was profound ….. much more of an initial effect ….. her bp at the next measurement to hours later was 108/ 65 …. and she had only taken bp meds several hours before. She was also, as expected, less ‘wasted’. Her bp was slightly elevated before bed … a 3 bp med day.

        Today will be the first full day ….. carboxylated ….. I will keep you posted.

        Though I am now wondering at whether it is so critical, I finally managed to score a clone of the Harequin variety … 9-10% CBD …… 3 months til 1st cbd harvest, unless you think perhaps juicing it might be worth a try (which could be done sooner).
        All good here …. ‘high’ expectations for todays readings …. we are at “ drops per day …… full dose starts this Saturday …… YES!!!!!

        Again thank you for all your help

        Steve

        ps as hypertension is NOT yet a very ‘advertised’ beneficiary of Cannabis treatment, perhaps a thread here might be in order ….. ‘jes sayin’ ;-)

        • Cannabis certainly controls my hyper tension. When I take Hyzar in the morning, when I wake up the next morning, my blood pressure is 150/160-80/90, so I take the Hyzar at night. When I wake up, my blood pressure is around 115/70, and after medicating with cannabis, it stays that way until bedtime.

  24. Posted by Edible Alchemist on November 23, 2013 at 2:22 PM

    Thanks for making this research available to the public. I make infused hard candies using bho and maple syrup. You essentially bring the ingredients to a boil on the stove, and pour the mixture into molds when you reach the hard crack stage 290-300 degrees F. Im not always sure if the bho is fully decarbed at the start, but I assume that the cooking process will handle this. Ive tried two methods, the first being adding the bho to the mixture early on, before it starts to simmer, or I wait until we hit about 220 degrees F and just mix it in. Both methods produce a good finished product, but I have noticed that the earlier infusion tends to produce candies that kick in much slower, but are at least just as good. I guess my question is, will the cooking of the bho in a syrup/water mixture up to the hard crack stage be enough to decarb, if its not decarbed already? does the syrup/water medium detract from the process due to moisture, or are those temps enough regardless of the menstruum? I also never add any fats to the mix, yet the candies are still quite potent. Does the sub-lingual ingestion mitigate the need for fats to absorb the cannabinoids into the blood stream? Thanks.

    • I prefer to add the BHO after the material has hit 300F to reach crack stage, and has cooled down to around 250F.

      They plate sugar with cannabis resin dissolved in ethanol, evaporate it off and mix it with water soluble drinks, so there is some mechanism at play there.

      I’ve only used honey, which also has bees wax in it, which can be a menstruum.

  25. Posted by me on October 31, 2013 at 4:26 PM

    whats the best way to store oil in its carboxylic state for extended periods of time

    • In an opaque air tight container in the freezer.

      • Posted by EGHCannaLady on November 1, 2013 at 2:03 PM

        The above reply is correct. I work with 200-400 grams of co2 oil at any given time, both decarbed and raw. Keep in mind that your oil will oxidize and turn black in time, I do not recommend storing it for more then 3-4 months in any condition. The color turns and it gets a really odd smell….. almost like a perm.
        So far I havnt noticed a change in potency and I have every batch of product tested to ensure our medical products have consistent strength.

        I use the a fridge, not a freezer, only because it makes it easier for me to remove the amount I need without needing to wait for it.

    • I have put cannabutter in the freezer. I was told it can last up to 6 months this way!

  26. Posted by Lizzy on October 29, 2013 at 1:18 PM

    I just made a batch of glycerin tincture using about 2oz of bud. I followed your instructions explicitly for the hot method. I have just finished the decarb (after pressing). I waited until the product was at 250 (using two thermometers to be sure) and then periodically stirred with a bamboo skewer for 30 minutes. Here’s the thing, I never saw any bubbles at all. Did I do something wrong? Have not tested the final product… it is still too hot!

    • If you extracted it by the hot method, you most likely have already decarboxylated it.

      • Posted by Lizzy on October 30, 2013 at 10:52 AM

        AHA! Thank you….. That makes sense, I was thinking that because I kept it below 180f during the hot extraction, I had to decarb it. Looking at the chart I see that at the lower temps the THC levels are less. So do you think by raising the temp to 250f for 30 minutes I raised the THC level? I made a batch of gummy candies with the product and the effect is a very nice head high. One more Question: If I decarb the rest of the oil again at a higher temperature for a longer time (as per the chart), will I get a more sedative effect? Or is it done after being decarbed once? Thanks again, great site!

        • You can maximize the THC levels by going to 250F for around 30 minutes, but you can’t change anything that isn’t there, so it gets down to the material involved as well.

          Once it is decarbed, more heating will only convert more existing THC to CBN. That will give it a more sedative effect.

  27. Posted by Jose Cuervo on October 13, 2013 at 12:43 AM

    I was wondering if your using something like mct oil or coconut oil can you use the same method to watch for decarboxylation? Also I wondered once you see the CO2 bubbles have started to subside and you have maximized THC do you just remove from heat and cool or do you just strain out the product immediately from it?

    • You strain out the product before decarboxylation.

      • Posted by patrice cham on October 16, 2013 at 12:12 AM

        If you strain before decarboxlylaton then all you get is the same oil you started with
        i’m sorry for the worlds stoned, retards.Decarboxlation is cooking the oil with weed in a cookpot. Then you strain the oil from the weed and get oil to cook your brownies with. The THC is mostly gone from the weed in the pan so I throw it away. Strain your oil immedieately after you cooked it. I found high and faster makes great cooking oil . If you burn a little and it starts smoking a little its ok. Some of the best oil I’ve pulled off the burner going O shit I ruined it . Those brownies made me more stoned than ever.

        • Ummmm, decarboxylation is removing the COOH carboxyl group from the phenol molecule, usually using heat.

          If you have removed the resin from the material, and it now resides in the oil, the oil is all that needs decarboxylation.

          • Posted by al-k-mist on October 18, 2013 at 6:36 AM

            so i am making canna caps this am for a patient with days to live. i am under the impression …and think you just said…that i can mix the bho and the coconut oil, throw it in a flask and heat until the co2 bubbles stop. my hotplate is fucked so i plan on using an oil bath on the stove. etoh will bee far from the stove today(dont ask, got blisters from trying to cut corners….and wasted medicine)
            unless i could put it in the oven for that time in a pyrex dish @252

          • It will work in the oven. You just need even heating.

  28. Posted by dr. swizzak on October 12, 2013 at 12:15 PM

    can a glycerine/kief tincture be decarbed in an oil bath in the oven in a mason jar with the lid screwed on to retain vapors and prevent strong odor in the house or will the jar explode (250f)? thanks for all of this amazing info!

    • The moisture present, would create steam pressure.

      • Posted by patrice cham on October 16, 2013 at 12:18 AM

        ever done any canning . – 250 in the oven will be fine. Even full of water. canning jars are tough items and are design for this. DON’t USE A CRACKED ONE . —— it will not explode

    • Posted by EGHCannaLady on November 1, 2013 at 2:07 PM

      yeahhhhhh. dont do that. the vapors need to escape so that Delta 9 THCA can be converted to Delta 9 THC. It’s gonna reak. Keep your hood vent on. pretty much your only hope. Be aware as well that you’re going to probably get somewhat high…. Iits an issue i know all too well from de carbing c02 oil…

  29. Posted by fred on October 8, 2013 at 11:59 AM

    I give my dog 2 squirts of Hempseed oil every day. So good for her coat and I want to support hemp as much as possible.Dr Thomas is the one to contact to get all hemp products.reach Dr Thomas on dis email
    thomasmedicalservice@hotmail.com

  30. When I look at the decarboxylation chart provided, I see a quicker decarboxylation point at 293f. I am not sure why you recommend the 252f temperature ….. are there other medicinal terpenes that are lost at the higher temperature, or?

    • ß-caryophyllene Boiling point: 119*C / 246.2 degree Fahrenheit Properties: Antiinflammatory, Cytoprotective (gastric mucosa), Antimalarial

    • Posted by patrice cham on October 15, 2013 at 11:51 PM

      aside from all this advanced chemistry bullshit I got the most powerfull oil by ALMOST burning it. I use a thermometer and get the best oil by heatjng it fast to almost 300 F high times say cook the oil at the temp of warm water —-I tell you I don’t have weeks for it to infuse the oil with THC. YOur idea is right Peace Brother

  31. Posted by Jimmythewah on October 1, 2013 at 3:31 PM

    Hi GW.

    Thank you so much for all the love and knowledge you share.
    I have been producing a beautiful CO2 extraction on a device produced by JY.
    I have a few questions regarding CO2 decarboxylation.
    My runs are generally at an average of 90 Celsius for 4hrs at 4500psi. My material is put through numerous runs.
    What is the effect of supercritical fluid and carboxylation?
    I do an everclear wash post extraction.
    I freaked out this morning when I saw the bubbles at 250F. It also gave off a beautiful aroma. BadKitty suggests keeping it covered so there is no loss of potent vapor however we do want the CO2 released.

    So as I read it: 250F for 7 mins. post CO2 extraction and everclear wash will remove any residual alcohol and Max THC decarb. Si Senor?

    What are the traits of the CO2 bubbles?
    At 250 is where I am stirring and watching till the subside and pull from heat?

    I have have a number of other processing and polishing questions I will take over to the CO2 thread.

    A Mentor to many.
    Thank you again for all of your Guidance.

    • I’m just learning about SCFE myself, but the samples that I did play with were still carboxylic acid and were in addition, fact still saturated with C02, which came off when I pulled a -29.5″ Hg vacuum at 115F.

      When you heat the oil to 250F for maximum THC levels, you kiss most of the monoterpenes goodbye. Putting a lid on it will reduce the loss some, because the enriched layer above the boiling pool will make it harder for molecules to escape the surface, but losses are still high.

      The first bubbles that you will see, are the residual solvent bubbles, which will be variably sized and some quite large, followed by small fizzy CO2 bubbles, about the same size.
      With both of those bubbles, you will have monoterpene loss, because of their high vapor pressure.

      “So as I read it: 250F for 7 mins. post CO2 extraction and everclear wash will remove any residual alcohol and Max THC decarb. Si Senor?”

      Not necessarily so, you have to watch what is going on to know what is going on, instead of relying on a timer.

      Are you also winterizing your extraction while you have it dissolved in ethanol?

      7 minutes is also not long enough at 250F, it is more like 27 minutes, but it is really when the production of CO2 bubbles from decarboxylation, suddenly falls off, indicating the peak of the curve, at about 70% decarboxylation.

      As you note, you are stirring to keep the little bubbles from forming large bubbles, so that you can accurately gauge when the large bubbles actually do stop, as well as when bubble production does fall off. Otherwise it happens under a cover of foam.

      • Posted by jimmythewah on November 4, 2013 at 9:27 PM

        Hi GW.

        Still chasing the Holy Grail with my C02 extraction.

        A few still un-answered questions:

        Is it possible that decarboxylation has already occurred during my high temp high pressure 4-6 hr C02 extraction?

        The ethanol purge first then hang tight and wait for the decarb bubbles?
        Then pull off at peak C02 bubble for maximum head effect?
        You asked if I am winterizing and I am. I then coffee filter and lay thin on pyrex as ethanol evaporates (I forget the term).

        I am left with a beautiful fragrant Amber. Should I decarb then? I don’t want to over fry it to all CBN.
        Some I let sit for two weeks I get the chipped Amber you discussed in the evape thread.

        Now the ever elusive possibly mythological pen-liquid with power.

        I have two current batches. Neither have been straight decarbed over heat.
        I just mixed one today. I warm the VG before combine and I have a nice mixture.

        The other has been sitting for three weeks. Nice dark nut brown color smells lovely.

        I have 6g of my Amber 120ml of VG and 10ml ethanol. I shake daily and have heated to 180F twice for a short period to thin for agitation.
        Still not the head effect (vaping a 3.8volts) I am targeting.

        Thoughts?

        Goals:
        Refine and maximize base amber. Is a charcoal filter needed for true absolute? If so how and when?
        Maximize amber/VG ratio. How much will the VG hold?
        decarb for thc availability through a 3.8 volt vapor pen(not sure temp)

        Or maybe that Grail is never to be found.

        I also make a really nice sub-lingual tincture for a Woman battling late stage cancer. third third and third of coconut,almond and my Amber.
        She has dropped off of a narcotic pharmaceutical and feels better.
        A simple Grail of a carpenter.

        Thank you Sir.

        • Posted by jimmythewah on November 5, 2013 at 8:24 PM

          Update to my previous post. I had my raw material lab tested and the super-critical extraction at the temps and duration I use does indeed decarb.

        • Yes, it is possible to at least partially decarboxylate using heat.

          For peak head effect, you would break off decarboxylation just after maximum bubble activity. When the rapid bubble generation, suddenly sharply drops off, indicating that you just dropped off the peak of the curve.

          It is only desirable to decarb if you are going to ingest the oil orally or need it to flow in a pen. If that is your goal, I would simply boil off the alcohol in a 250F oil bath, and continue to cook until I reached the state of decarboxylation that I sought.

          Natural evaporation will produce a more floral oil, by retaining more of the monoterpenes, but you will lose them anyway when you heat it for decarboxylation.

          About 30/50% saturation is the best that you will get extracting with VG, so although it works in an E-pen, it isn’t very exciting as compared to vaping straight oil.

          Good job with your cancer patient!

  32. Posted by kevin on September 25, 2013 at 8:50 PM

    hey im gonna be making brownies with oil, i was wondering if this would work,
    Im going to decarb the weed in my oven at 230 for 30 minutes, then im going to put the weed in oil at 250 for ten minutes, then im going to bake the brownies at 325 for 15 minutes
    Would the 325 for fifteen minutes make the thc and stuff evaporate?

    • 325 is below the vaporization point of the cannabinoids, but you will end up with sedative effects using that much heat.

      If you are extracting with 250F oil, you need more time and to stir frequently to keep the boundary layers between the oil and resin fresh.

      I would also skip the oven decarb and decarb in the oil bath while extracting instead.

  33. Follow GrayWolf on twitter
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    Portland

  34. Posted by patrice cham on September 3, 2013 at 9:56 PM

    the High Times Cookbook say heat the oil 112 F to 145 F . They must be smoking too much when they published their cookbook. I swear they got their C and their F’s switched up.

    • Sounds possible, I haven’t read it yet. It would decarboxylate at those temperatures, but clearly pretty slow and wouldn’t maximize THC levels. I will check out their new book and mention it to them this weekend at the Seattle cup.

      • Posted by patrice cham on September 8, 2013 at 12:25 AM

        sorry, It should be 122 f not 112 as mentioned above. Thanks for telling hightimes I called them but—- People are using the High Times cookbook as a reference and I think they messed up their F’s andC’s

        • Posted by Elise on September 17, 2013 at 11:19 AM

          Hi Patrice, This is Elise from High Times. Different recipes in the cookbook give different instructions with regards to temperature. The reference to 122º F to 145º F is for infusing your oil or butter, which are then used as ingredients in other recipes that are heated yet again on the stovetop or baked in the oven, completing the process of conversion. Sorry if it wasn’t clear. Tinctures are heated at 170º to 180º for 45 to 90 minutes. The book was designed for the home cook, so instructions are given for the layman and they are advised to “go low and slow” to achieve desired effect and avoid too much CBN. Obviously you can vary the time and temperature to achieve different results.

          • Posted by Matthew on November 27, 2013 at 6:51 PM

            Can I clarify that decarboxylation will occur at temps as low as 170 or 180 degrees Fahrenheit (70 or 80 Celsius)? Making cannabis oil with 99.9% Isopropyl alcohol and using a rice cooker to boil off solvent means the oil will only reach temps of 82 degrees Celsius, at least until solvent is gone, though this temp is sustained for more than an hour.
            While the Rick Simpson method advises placing oil on coffee warmer or “gentle heating device” after the rice cooker stage, most instructions do not clarify that this stage is important to finish decarboxylation as it is said (in how to guides) this is simply to evaporate remaining solvent and water. While cannabis oil instructions warn against exceeding temps of 140 c, none of them mention minimum temperatures. Many people think the rice cooker cooks the oil sufficiently, until recently i thought this was the case too. I have since discovered that in the absence of a coffee warmer it is recommended to place oil in oven for hour at 110 Celsius to make sure cannabis is 100% cooked. I have read that 106 degrees Celsius is recommended for rapid (less than an hour) conversion of THCA to THC, other sources say 90 is sufficient. In any case I was wondering roughly what level of decarboxylation occurs in the rice cooker, assuming it is sustaining temperatures of 82 degrees Celsius. I know some level of decarboxylation occurs at 82 degrees Celsius as oil is psychoactive direct from rice cooker, but I also know that is likely not 100% cooked through at this temp. Does anyone know what temps and time periods are required for decarboxylation. For example what level of decarboxylation can be expected from heating 20 grams of cannabis oil at 80 degrees Celsius, and what length of time would be needed for decarboxylation to be complete? I understand the premise that low temps avoid degrading too much THC to CBN, but are such temps really sufficient to decarb THCA to THC?

          • Check out the decarboxylation chart, which is now visible.

          • Posted by Matthew on November 28, 2013 at 8:32 PM

            You say tinctures are heated at 170 to 180 degrees F (70 or 80 degrees Celsius) for 45 to 90 minutes. Are you sure this is sufficient to decarboxylate the cannabis? I understand that high temps can lead to much conversion of THC to CBN, but thought that the temp had to be above 90 degrees Celsius if you wanted to convert all THCA to THC with in an hour. Most people seem to recommend heating to at least 106 (celsius) for optimal rapid decarboxylation. Does anyone know how long it would take to decarb oil if heating it at 82 degrees Celsius?

          • For some reason our decarboxylation chart minimized, but I restored it, so if you look at the thread, there is now a visible chart answering our questions.

          • Posted by Matthew on November 29, 2013 at 10:52 PM

            I’m sorry if I am being thick here and not properly understanding the chart but it does not answer my questions. I realise for 100% rapid decarboxylation, temps of above 106 degrees Celsius are recommended, and I get it that higher temps equal less time required. But I am trying to find out what level of decarboxylation is achieved at temps of 82.4 degrees Celsius (as that is the temp the rice cooker boils off Isopropyl alcohol) and how long full decarboxylation would take to achieve at this temp.
            Also does anyone know if there is a minimum temp for decarboxylation. For 4 months I made cannabis oil with a rice cooker which involved temperatures of 82.4 degrees Celsius and then reheated till oil stopped bubbling with boiling hot water. Eventually I was advised to put oil in oven at 110 for an hour to ensure 100% decarboxylation. But until then most decarboxylation would have relied on the heat from the rice cooker stage with a little more heat applied to it till it stopped bubbling.
            What I am trying to work out is how much decarboxylation was achieved before I added the oven step. I know the rice cooker alone decarbs the oil at least partially as it was psychoactive when eaten direct from the rice cooker but I now realise it requires more heat to make decarboxylation 100%. If the rice cooker cooks the oil at 82.4, as the solvent boils, then how much decarboxylation is likely to be achieved at this stage? How long would such temps need to fully decarb small amounts of oil (less than 20 grams)?
            I know now that the oven step is best way to achieve rapid and full decarboxylation, as the rice cooker only partially cooks it, and I know now the ideal temps for rapid decarboxylation. But it is very important for me to understand how much decarboxylation is achieved from the rice cooker stage so I can gage a rough idea of how potent my oil was back when I relied mostly on rice cooker to decarb it. Please help.

          • I don’t have a good percent number for you at 82C/180F, only that it does partially decarboxylate and that we always decarboxylate after extraction, so as to tell what is going on.

            The curve suggests that the rate of conversion of THCA to THC is closer to the rate that THC is converted to CBN.

          • Posted by Matthew on November 30, 2013 at 4:04 PM

            Thanks for taking time to answer best you can. I realise now that further decarboxylation is required after rice cooker stage, and I understand the temps needed to maximise this. Sadly this information is too late for me. I was making cannabis oil last year for my father who had terminal stage 4 cancer. For the first 4 months I made cannabis oil with out realising that the rice cooker wasn’t properly cooking the oil. I live in the UK and had no means of testing oil, but it was psychoactive to eat and as the instructions from Rick Simpson’s site advise that you can take oil, as medicine, direct from the rice cooker I assumed that is was sufficiently cooked by the rice cooker. Also the instructions say to place oil on coffee warmer or “gentle heating device” after rice cooker stage to evaporate remaining traces of solvent and water, there is no mention that this is to complete decarboxylation, in fact there is no mention of decarboxylation at all or the minimum temperatures required. So after the rice cooker stage I simply used boiling water to heat oil until it stopped bubbling believing this process was only for evaporating remaining traces of solvent and water. I’m not trying to throw blame at Rick here, I blame only myself for not better researching decarboxylation temperatures in order to discover this sooner, especially when my fathers life was at stake. But as many people have no knowledge of decarboxylation, I do strongly feel this needs to be better explained in Rick’s instructions. After 4 months of failing to cure my fathers cancer, insufficient decarboxylation was suggested as a possibility and I was advised to place oil in oven at 110 for an hour to make sure decarboxylation is 100%. I did this and my father took this more potent oil for the next 6 months, but sadly it failed to cure his cancer and he died nearly 12 months after he first began the treatment. As I search for possible reasons for my failure, along with the possibility that it was simply too late from his diagnosis, I must accept the possibility that incomplete decarboxylation was a factor, which is my fault. My father took much more oil than the standard 60 grams (taking more than 120 grams in 4 months) and was high for much (though not quite all) of that time. However I cannot help wonder what difference it might have made if it was fully cooked from the beginning. Many people have tried to make me feel better by saying stronger oil would have just meant he took less, as he was generally taking as much as he could handle, and I am not aware of any detriment to consuming oil that still contains THCA in addition to THC, but as I have no real idea how much decarboxylation was achieved by the rice cooker, I cannot really come to any conclusion over what difference it made to his treatment. Maybe it was too late anyway, and maybe achieving psychoactive doses of partially cooked oil involved the same quantity of active THC as smaller doses of fully decarbed oil would have. I don’t know, and I guess my attempts to find out roughly how much decarboxylation occurs in the rice cooker is my way of gaging how potent my oil was during this time. Which ever way I slice it I cannot help feeling that I messed up my fathers cancer treatment with this unforgivable oversight and while I am not trying to throw any blame to Rick or anyone else, I have advised him and all websites that give instructions on making cannabis oil to better clarify decarboxylation and it’s importance, so that others do not make similar mistakes. At the end of the day, the oil was almost certainly more potent after I added the oven step and I wish i had learnt this sooner than I did, as it might have made the crucial difference. Anyway, I’m sorry to share my sad story but if anyone has more information on decarboxylation at 82 degrees Celsius I would be grateful to know more about it. I’m not looking to feel better with false info, I just wanna know the truth about how much blame I really deserve for my failure to cure my father, and to warn others not to make similar mistakes. I should have known better, as I already knew about THCA and should not have assumed the oil was properly cooked from the rice cooker with out checking minimum required temperatures, but as many people do not know about THCA in raw cannabis I do feel this mistake could happen to others. So would ask anyone reading this to pass on such warnings to other oil makers, especially those attempting to cure terminal cancers.

          • Might I put a couple of things in perspective. It is necessary to decarboxylate THC for it to pass the blood brain barrier and reach the CB-1 receptors in the brain. There is a large mass of evidence building suggesting that the anti tumor properties of cannabis, is CBD acting on the CB-2 receptors in our immune system.

            We’ve given enough cancer patients cannabis oil, to know that it is not the great panacea, because it works sometimes and sometimes it doesn’t. All of our bodies are different, and a tumor is a symptom of deeper underlying issues with the immune system.

            Our bodies make aberrant cells all the time, but correct the problem or remove the cell through apoptosis. It is only when it fails to fix the problem and the cell ignores the endocannabinoid neurotransmitter telling it to die, thus becoming immortal, that it grows unchecked.

            So far the research suggests that cannabinoids anti tumor effects are that it sometimes restores apoptosis, so that the tumor just commits suicide, and it also blocks the enzymes that tumors excrete, to induce our bodies to build additional blood supplies for growth.

            All of the cancer patients that I’ve watched die, also exhausted every other avenue at their disposal as well.
            It is good for folks to know how to decarboxylate their oil, for those applications where they need to activate the CB-1 receptors, but I think it is a reach to infer that your dad died because of your failure to do so.

            A far larger influence in my experience, is whether the oil is a high CBD strain or a recreational strain bred for high THC and very little THC.

          • Posted by Matthew on December 1, 2013 at 6:31 PM

            Thank you for taking the time to respond to my questions, I appreciate you taking the time to provide me what information you can and I am sorry for being so grim with my self recriminations.
            I was under the impression that, while both THC and CBD have demonstrated strong anti cancer effects, the evidence for THC is more abundant and impressive than that of CBD. While I would ideally have liked to have access to cannabis high in CBD as well as cannabis high in THC (as well as the means to test cannabinoid content) I was under the impression that THC was the more important of the two.
            In any case decarboxylation would still be required to convert CBDA to CBD, just as it is necessary to convert THCA to THC, so the oil would still need to be properly cooked regardless of THC or CBD content, so that all the cannabinoid acids are converted to the activated cannabinoids.
            In addition to not passing the blood brain barrier, is it not also correct to say that THCA, and CBDA, do not activate either CB1 or CB2 receptors, I know they don’t activate CB1, and I would be surprised if they activated CB2 as that receptor is activated by THC and CBD. He didn’t have brain cancer, so the blood brain barrier is not really an issue, but the apparent superiority of activated cannabinoids over cannabinoid acids when fighting cancer is an issue for me. There is likely some holes in my understanding here, but at the end of the day is it not true that oil made for cancer patients should be fully cooked to maximum potency for maximum anti cancer effect?
            I realise that it might seem a reach to blame incomplete decarboxylation for my failure to cure my father, and I do realise that it is likely that fully cooked cannabis oil would have still failed for many possible reasons. In addition to it simply being too late, I take your point that lack of CBD may have been a factor, and I also take your point that some cancers in some people seem more resistant to cannabinoids and of course cannabis is not a guaranteed miracle and does not always cure all cancers in all people. My father was stage 4, and deemed incurable by doctors, so we were always against the odds. But it seems painfully clear that, even if it is not a probability, it is a possibility that incomplete decarboxylation could have been a factor in my failure to save his life.
            Cannabis oil was his only real hope, and while it is not my fault that we are left with out medical assistance and access to more different strains with different cannabinoid profiles, the decarboxylation, or lack of, was down to me.

            This is why I am desperate to try and gage the potency of my oil from the rice cooker, as this was primarily relied on for decarboxylation. I did also heat the oil after rice cooker stage using boiling water until no more bubbles were produced, to evaporate remaining traces of solvent, though this rarely took more than 30 minutes or so, and my father was generally taking psychoactive doses as much as he could handle for much of the time, so there does seem to be some logic to the assumption that the same amount of active THC was still consumed from this partially cooked oil as would have been from fully cooked oil, with the only real difference being more oil overall and the additional presence of THCA, but at the end of the day it seems that oil produced as a cancer treatment should be it’s most potent to stand the best chance of success. Correct me if I am wrong.
            I would love to find a way to honestly say I did everything I could, and if I produced properly cooked full potency oil from the beginning, then I could say that. I was always going to look back and wonder what I could have done differently, and what I should have done differently, but it is devastating to think an oversight of mine compromised his treatment. The fact that it may have failed anyway is of little comfort. While this information is too late to matter for my dad, I am still desperate to better understand the likely potency of my oil and the potential impact of my incomplete decarboxylation. So am grateful to any information provided on the subject. Thanks again for your help.

          • There is a growing body of evidence that CBDA has anti tumor properties, and doesn’t have to cross the blood brain barrier to do so. I think if you continue to watch, you will become more comfortable with your own efforts to save your dad.

          • Posted by Matthew on December 22, 2013 at 11:14 AM

            Thanks, I realise there is evidence of some level of anti cancer effect, as well as other benefits, from raw THCA and CBDA. However it does still seem painfully clear that active THC and CBD are the most effective at killing cancer and it seems to be most likely that full decarboxylation is required to give oil the best chance of curing a cancer, particularly late stage cancers. In an ideal world, he would have had high potency oil both THC dominant and CBD dominant, plus raw cannabis, either raw oil or juice, so he’s getting THC, CBD and THCA and CBDA, all in sufficient quantities, to give him the best chance of success. But we don’t live in an ideal world and it was my responsibility to make sure the oil was it’s highest possible quality, as much as I’d like to feel I did everything right, I cannot escape the feeling that the partially cooked oil was not as effective as the fully cooked oil. For this reason, I am still desperate to learn more about likely levels of decarboxylation achieved by the rice cooker as it boils off Isopropyl. But I also would like to know more about THCA and CBDA effects on cancer, and would like to see this issue better clarified for future oil makers. I have seen posts by many people purposely opting for less decarboxylation, either because the psychoactive effects are not desired or because they believe raw cannabinoid acids to be better than heated/activated cannabinoids, though the evidence does not currently back up such a view, at least not when trying to cure a terminal cancer.
            I am trying to be less hard on myself over my own efforts to save my dad, but it is difficult as I feel what I have learned since about decarboxylation, it’s importance and the temps required to achieve it, are things I should have learnt sooner, before it was too late, especially as I had learnt much of it at the time, but failed to connect all the dots when I was racking my useless mind for possible reasons for the failure to cure him. I don’t know for sure, but based on everything I have learnt since, it seems almost certain that the oil was more potent after I added the oven stage to complete decarboxylation, and it seems almost certain that fully cooked oil was the better and more effective cancer treatment.
            While I cannot be sure what difference it would have made if full decarboxylation was guaranteed from the start, it is hard not to wonder what difference it might have made and it is hard not to curse myself for failing to take the necessary steps to make sure all THCA and CBDA present was converted to the more active cannabinoids, as it seems almost certain that activated THC and CBD are the most potent cancer killers. Any info on raw cannabinoid acids and the likely decarboxylation achieved by the rice cooker when boiling off alcohol is very much appreciated. Thank you for the information already provided and the kind words.

  35. Posted by unclefester2u on September 2, 2013 at 10:55 AM

    Hello GW Fantastic site the good karma will always be there with folks like you all. Question on decarboxylation, in following your instructions with ethanol extract when oil reaches around 180-200 deg it turns into foam. Is this normal? never had anything look as lets say smooth as yours when done. ( no bubbles or foam )
    Thanks

  36. Posted by Adam Pettitt on August 23, 2013 at 9:34 AM

    Can someone please enlighten me?

    I’ve read through this and many other pages on this site. And while you’re to be commended for you effort and there is a lot of info here, I’m having trouble sorting it through it.

    Essentially, my Father has bladder cancer, which he wants to treat with oil. Until I found your site I thought it was OK to heat the oil to disperse any solvent. However after reading on here I’m not so sure if it should be heated or not or whether he should be getting CBA, CBD’s, THC, THCa or what have you. Whether it should be decarboxilated or winterised or what? Whether the effects are going to be sedative or make him high. I thought I knew the answers to these questions, but after spending some time on here I am now totally confused.

    You have a lot of data here both scientific and anecdotal. And while it’s very interesting to read through all the posts it is very time consuming. Maybe it needs collating somehow so that’s it’s easier to get to the facts without having to read through a load of posts, some relevant some not so. If the facts were listed somewhere maybe people could quickly get a handle on what’s the best form of oil for them and what’s the best way to make it? Maybe some sort of matrix perhaps.

    For example:
    If you have a cancer you need to fight, then you need an oil high in (whichever it’s supposed to be CBA, CBD, THC,etc). To achieve this high level of (CBD, CBA, THC) you need to prepare the oil in this way and heat it to this temp for this amount of time, etc.

    I’ve had a couple of other family members read through this and they too are at a loss, as to what needs to be done to the oil.

    Just a thought to make this very useful site more useful.

    Keep up the good work

    Adam

    • Thanks for the input Adam.

      We haven’t done a bladder cancer yet, but would suggest trying our Holy Anointing Oil Oral, or Holy Shit formula.

      http://skunkpharmresearch.com/holy-anointing-oil-and-holy-shit/

      • Posted by Adam Pettitt on August 23, 2013 at 8:43 PM

        That’s excellent thanks. My Mum had lung cancer and tried the oil, but didn’t like the dysphoria that came with it. At the time we were getting oil from Holland and it was of varying quality. However, it pretty much always turned her into a zombie. I can only assume the oil had been heated enough to turn most of the THC into CBN. I’d like to avoid this with my Dad if possible. Can you point me to any methods using Iso without heat. Or is it simply a case of allowing the iso to evaporate out of the oil with the aid of a fan or some such over a period of days?

        • The most sure fire way to purge the oil would be under -29.5″ Hg vacuum and 115F. Vacuum until the large/variably sized solvent bubbles stop, and only a few small fizzy bubbles remain.

          • Posted by Adam Pettitt on August 24, 2013 at 7:44 AM

            Thanks.

            “-29.5″ HG Vacuum” What does the HG stand for?

          • Hg stands for Mercury. 29 1/2 inches of Mercury weighs 14.49 psi and the full atmosphere weighs 14.7 psi..

          • Posted by Adam Pettitt on August 24, 2013 at 8:16 AM

            It’s OK. I found it thanks.

          • Posted by Adam Pettitt on August 24, 2013 at 8:40 AM

            So, just to confirm, so I have this correct: I was originally going to use a water distiller I bought for this very purpose in order to recover the ISO. However, I will have no control over the heat applied and therefore I will have no control over how much THC is converted to CBN, so I should not use the distiller unless I know for sure it wont heat the oil to 252 F for at least 27 minutes? Have I got that right?

          • The distiller will work fine until you get to the finishing steps, so you might consider distilling off 90% or so of the alcohol, and then switching to a hot oil bath at 250F until the solvent bubbles are gone and it reaches the state of decarboxylation that you desire.

            Without pressurizing the still, you can’t get the alcohol any hotter than its boiling point. Once the alcohol is gone, the mixture will elevate to the next highest boiling point, or to whatever heat setting it is at.

          • Posted by Adam Pettitt on August 26, 2013 at 6:28 PM

            I see. Thanks for the advice.

        • Posted by motooil on November 12, 2013 at 10:15 AM

          Method of application…digesting the oil causes euphoria, putting on gums first allows the oil to go to the receptors in the brain 1st, which controls the concentrate that is swallowed. Make sure when applying to the gum hold it firmly until the oil ‘tacks’ to the gum…once this is done, swallow the rest. GL

  37. I think that until i will see a video that shows all of the decarboxylation process – solvent evaporation bubbles, co2 bubbles drop down… i will never be sure i am doing it right… a five minutes video can explain things that words are almost impossible to do… hopefully someone will make that video one day… thank you skunkpharm for all the info :-)

    Nir

    • Posted by CBDWillSetYouFree on October 12, 2013 at 11:12 AM

      Hello Nir Segal, I was just surfing by & saw your post and thought I would share this if you have not already seen… Look up “Bad Kitty Smiles” on Youtube, Her world summit videos are incredible and may assist you a lot as she shows 3 or 4 different methods all on one video and incredibly easy to follow her info… Good luck to you!!!

  38. Posted by peanutbutter on August 4, 2013 at 4:14 PM

    I want a collection of CNB. I have THCa and CBDa, THC and CBD. What is the best, identified by testing, method to produce CBN?

    • CBN is the breakdown product of THC. You can increase its levels by cooking the oil after it has already been decarboxylated.

      If you look at the decarboxylation graph, you will note that after it peaks, the THC levels plummet. That is because the remaining THCA is being converted to THC at a slower rate than THC is being converted to CBN.

      • I think I did it right…I decarboxylated the plant material and then cooked it in coconut oil. I added lavender and got the most lovely smelling topical oil that seems to take care of pain. I did not check the temp…next time I’m using an induction burner that can be set to a particular temp.

        • The test of any topical is the effect. If it works, its good!

          • It worked great. Now, is there anyway I can bake hash and decarb it at a temperature so that I increase the CBD’s? I then want to make a tincture using alcohol with it…any ideas? I was thinking that I could add water to the dry hash and then boil it to a temperature of say 350 to 360. Then let the product dry out before starting the addition of alcohol (I intend to use the no cook process!!) I am new at all of this but I am determined to find a safe, pain killer for my sister who suffers from Crones. Thanks, Denise

          • Plant genetics determine the CBD level, but you can change THC to CBN by heating it.

            You can spread the hash out thin on a cookie sheet, and heat it in a 252F oven for 27 minutes, before extracting.

            Don’t add water. You can’t get it to 350F because of its boiling point of 212F, and a liquid isn’t necessary for decarboxylation.

      • what bubbles do i look for when decarbing to 70 percent using coconut oil extraction.also i am confused on what you yse to heat the oil a ricecooker a pan a mason jar floating in boiling water . i am just trying to make potent thc oil 1 serving.

        • The decarboxylating oil will produce copious C02 bubbles.

          We heat the oil in a stainless bain marie container, setting in a fondue pot of 250F Canola oil. You could also do it in and oven.

  39. Hi,
    If I use a laboratory Hot plate/stirrer (Not oil Bath) with an external thermometer that can brig the oil to a precise temperature, what temp the oil should be for best results?

    And with a hotplate/stirrer without an external thermometer – what Temperature should the plate that the oil sits on be for best results?

    Thank you
    Nir

    • Even hot oil is pretty thick to be using a magnetic stirrer.

      We use the oil bath, to eliminate hot spots, that even our laboratory hotplate/stirrer still has

      We use 250F for decarboxylation.

  40. Posted by Gerardo Guarno on July 5, 2013 at 7:42 AM

    Very informative but i feel there a few things which need some precision. if you allow me, i may post some information here.

    • We are always open to more precise data. If you will post it in the comments column, and it fits our standards for precision and decency, we will happily approve it, so that the rest of the public can also see it.

      I removed your live link, and salvaged this from the spam bin, so if you will eschew adding one in your reply, it won’t suffer the same fate.

  41. Posted by rick on July 3, 2013 at 1:18 AM

    First line in your article states: “Cannabis produces phyto cannabinoids in a carboxylic acid form that are not active in our bodies. ”

    Your opening line may be turning people away from what they actually need. What is the basis for your claim that the “acid forms are not active in our bodies”? Can you link to any research on that?

    I see that in later comments you note people are having success with juicing raw plant for treating various ailments. Of course raw plant has almost exclusively acidic form cannabinoids.

    Personal experience using alternately decarboxylated and cold processed (acidic) oil is the acidic oil killed pain completely… but that pain returned with a vengeance within 48 hours of switching to ‘activated’ decarboxylated oil. Pain disappeared again within 24 hours of resuming the acidic oil treatment.

    More reports of the effectiveness of the acid forms: http://courtneyforcongress.org/non-psychotropic-plant-cannabinoids.html

    Perhaps an update of that first paragraph is in order – at least to note that there may well be benefits available from the acid form cannabinoids also. A very important point is that many more people can tolerate high doses (gram a day or more) of THCA/CBDA combo since they don’t leave you wasted and disabled the way thjat much decarboxylated oil does. If raw plant or cold processed oil is equally effective at fighting cancer and other diseases we shouldn’t be turning people away from it!

    Thanks for initiating this discussion.

    • I did refine the first two paragraphs, to show why the cannabinoids in question aren’t orally active at the CB-1 receptor sites.

      We regularly supply decarboxylated oil for pain, and with great success, so perhaps there was more to your experiment that was apparent.

      People can definitely tolerate more THCA than THC orally, and can tolerate more THC, if it is balanced with CBD.

      At least one of our colon cancer patients was able to tolerate juicing raw cannabis, but not oil concentrates without bleeding. We seem to get good results with both, so I’m pretty sure both have their charms and uses.

  42. Posted by SolomonFarms on June 18, 2013 at 10:01 AM

    Hey Greywolf,
    I’ve been learning tons from this website. I am wondering about steam distillation. It has been said that the steam distillation of the cannabis to obtain the essential oils is ideal for gathering terpenoids, but doesnt work as well for extracting the thc…. usually has very low thc content, and therefore is not desired method for extraction. But if I decarboxylated perfectly cured flowers, and then use the activated flowers in a steam distiller, would I be able to end up with a potent slovent-less essential oil?

  43. Am considering adding 1 ounce essential oil of tumeric (curcumin) to 2 ounces of winterized cannabis indica extract prior to decarbolization at 250 and then adding 1.5 ML of essential oil of black pepper (Piperine) when simmering down to 117. There is now a general call for active patient studies in medical science research journals of this (curcumin) compound in cancer treatments and other medical conditions of note.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2693878/#!po=50.0000

  44. Posted by Eric on June 12, 2013 at 2:28 PM

    If intent on preserving all of the flavors and aromas, how might one decarboxylate fresh MJ in a %40 alcohol solution without heating the solution, which would be under pressure in a double boiler, beyond 98C?

    I understand that decarboxylation is a function of time and heat but have seen no information related to longer times at lower heat. It would be great if you could elaborate on how to make such a solution more heady and more sedative.

    My curiosity stems from an article describing how to make a MJ infused drink with NO2. http://www.popsci.com/diy/article/2013-04/mystery-nitrous-powered-pot-infused-liquor

    • When you decarboxylate with heat, the same heat that converts some of the THCA to THC, converts some of the THC to CBN, which is a sedative. If you look at the decarboxylation graph above, you will note that if you use 252F to 292F, that the THC is maximized, and if you use the lower temperatures, the THC is converted to CBN at close to the same rate that THCA is converted to THC, so the THC levels don’t reach as high.

      You will also note that even using the higher temperatures, that after about 70% decarboxylation, the levels of THC plunge with added decarboxylation. That is because the THC is now being converted to CBN at a faster rate than the residual THCA is converted to THC.

      If we want heady oil, we decarboxylate only 70% and if we want sedative oil, we decarboxylate 100%.

  45. Posted by poplars on June 1, 2013 at 6:18 PM

    have you guys ever had any issues with smell from the oil bath? was sort of a big issue for me. do you cover up the oil bath like a double boiler with a mixing bowl??

    • No, the Canola oil has very little smell, and the cannabis oil doesn’t smell strongly or like marijuana.

    • Posted by tagmt on June 23, 2013 at 2:28 PM

      Were also concerned about the smell of cooking this oil. So we put the olive/coconut oil in a mason Jar and then wrapped the top with Teflon tape before putting the lid on. Then I place the mason Jar in 2-3 zip-lock bags making sure to pull as much air out of each one as possible. Then we place the bag in our crock pot that we have filled with water and cook it on high for a few hours and then low for a few more hours (in total any where from 6-8 hours). Didn’t pay much attention to temperature because until reading this post had no idea that it made a difference. Will watch more carefully. Saying that…I must have had pretty good luck because the 3 batches I have made have worked brilliantly! That’s saying something considering the kind of pain I am on. It has been a real game changer for me! I have learned so much from this site and am so appreciative! Going back to the few batches we made. The first one we did we left it cooking in the crock pot while we went and ran to a few stores. When we were coming home we were SOooo worried that our whole house was going to be infiltrated with the smell of Marijuana… We even were expecting to be able to smell it out side our door, and were pleasantly surprised when there was not only no smell out side but not even the suggestion of a smell inside the house. We even had friends over that night and they had no idea we were cooking it! The other thing as I was reading posts was about canola oil. Is it Canola oil or coconut oil or dose it matter? I think it was canola oil, I heard was super processed. Keep up the Great work on informing and Educating people, and Thanks again!!!

  46. Keep in mind folks, THC works more efficiently when coupled with decent amounts of CBD. As well juicing raw fresh mature buds is effective as well for treatments. The combination of acidic cannabinoids, and the immune boosting omega fats is great for an immune booster. As well Cannabis contains Edestin which is an exclusive plant protein that contains all the essential Amino Acids, which are also partly responsible for immune function. While using extracts and juice, its also beneficial to maintain a healthy organic diet. The Cannabis will also play a role in effecting you differently according to what you are eating. A diet high in CRAP (Commercialized Refined And Processed) will not be as effective as diet high with other natural terpenes and flavinoids. These can also effect outcome of cannabis treatment as well. Fresh Organic Only Diet aka FOOD is what the body needs.

  47. Posted by SeaMorgan on May 25, 2013 at 8:26 PM

    Thank you so much for all of your informative articles! I am getting ready to do a hot extraction with glycerin following your instructions and had a question about decarbing. I am planning to use buds and sugar trim that tested out at 18% CBD, and want the tincture to have a strong CBD effect, but not so much that the user is too sedated to function. Are there any adjustments that I can make in the decarboxylation process to limit the “couchlock” caused by high CBD?

    • High CBN is usually the couch lock culprit, and if you have somewhere close to a balance between the the THC and CBD, it shouldn’t be couch locking. CBD is an analgesic and CBN is a sedative.

  48. Posted by poplars on May 6, 2013 at 4:29 PM

    would the graph above still apply to decarboxylation in oil? they did it in an open air reactor is the only reason I’m asking.

    also have you guys witnessed decarb bubbles on a double boiler or does that not get hot enough?

    • The graph is good in or out of the oil.

      A double boiler gets hot enough to very slowly decarboxylate, but if you put Canola oil in the bottom, instead of water, it will work well.

  49. Posted by CrispyBrofy on May 6, 2013 at 2:05 PM

    Would it be best to decarboxylate BHO before or after an ethanol purge?…Thank You!

  50. [...] without all the psychoactive effects.. CBD, decarbing, .. look heavily into this matter here is another link on decarbing! i myself have recently made two batches of edibles with hash oils.. my first batch, i did not [...]

  51. Posted by Redeye Jedi on April 24, 2013 at 11:32 AM

    I have conducted tests where I vaped non-decarbed oil, and decarbed oil. The decarbed oil clearly got us all higher! So I disagree that all THC is “decarbed when it is burned or vaporized”. Only a small % is decarbed in that moment, it takes time to fully decarb. Most people disagree with my position – but I have read it in some studies and I’ll try to find them. Great article

  52. Posted by UnblemishedMind on April 10, 2013 at 4:45 AM

    can you do a QWET extraction with starting material, not decarboxylated, reduce it to oil and THEN decarboxylate the oil in the canola oil bath?

    Is there any difference in final quality of oil from heating the plant material first to decarboxylate before the alcohol extraction, or making the oil extraction and then heating the oil to decarboxylate?

    Many thanks for your advice. For my situation, regarding the odour involved with heating the plant material….I imagine there maybe less odour when decarboxylating by heating the oil after extraction?

  53. Posted by Chef on March 29, 2013 at 5:27 PM

    Thanks for your posts, very informative. With regard to that graph, please credit the authors:
    Veress, T., Szanto, J. I., & Leisztner, L. (1990). Determination of cannabinoid acids by high-performance liquid chromatography of their neutral derivatives formed by thermal decarboxylation: I. Study of the decarboxylation process in open reactors. Journal of Chromatography A, 520, 339-347.

    Thanks!

  54. Posted by scubadoo on March 20, 2013 at 4:20 PM

    I guess my question is that would oil produced with this process be good to use medicinally to fight cancer? It probably wouldn’t be as potent as the traditional ways of making the oil?

    • My tongue in cheek guess is that you would have to consume enough to get the prescribed 1 gram a day dosage of cannabis oil. For sure you would be keeping your liver busy breaking down oil, so ostensibly it would aid the cannabinoids stick around longer.

  55. Wow thanks for a great read. I agree about the mangos….wonderful fruit…lol Im still a bit confused about this but what a learning curve Im on now…lol

    • Thanks for the good thoughts Sisterwoman! I live in a perpetual state of confusion, against a steep learning curve as well.

      I’ve read that learning new stuff promotes the growth of new neurons and neural pathways in the brain and of course we are losing neural pathways after age 18, so even though I can’t hope to keep up, maybe I can stretch out how long it takes to reach my last active brain cell.

  56. Posted by scubadoo on February 27, 2013 at 9:18 AM

    I went through this before also when i purchased some online. I actually sent an e-mail to the site & they responded by saying they used organically grown OG kush & the oil was made using a honeybee extractor. Now that process doen’t decarboxilate the oil as it’s the same process as making BHO but once the oil was extracted, they then decarboxilated it by heating the oil to the proper temperatures. The problem with this is you’re taking his word for it. If it’s not decarboxilated it will do you no good for an oral cancer treatment but is fine for smoking. That’s why it’s best to grow yourself or find someone you can trust. My wife was given 3 to 6 months to live 7 months ago but is still doing well because of the oil & other natural products. You should try B17 laetrelle as well as many people have been cured with this alone. Also use Essiac or Flor-Essence tea. By doing this, you will have a fighting chance against the cancer.

    Scubadoo

  57. Posted by Bob on February 25, 2013 at 3:18 PM

    I cannot source RSO or any oil locally but have managed to source some BHO online, it is a dark green colour, would this need to be decarboxylated prior to oral administration to a cancer patient?

  58. Posted by scubadoo on February 1, 2013 at 9:21 AM

    Depending on who grew it, how it was harvested…looks like the strain i’m getting is about 15.5 THC & around .45 CBD which is not a bad CBD number for higher thc mj.
    Will let you know once i get it.
    I will try to order some Everclear on line which is grain alcohol but not sure if they will send to canada. Does Everclear reduce the thc content of the finished product? & how about the yield? Is it reduced? Please advise!

    Scubadoo

    Scubadoo

    • I’ll give you more feedback once we’ve tested ourselves, but Hawaiian Bubble Gift is reputedly high in THC, with closer to a balance of CBD. We got our clone from a patient, who got it from a cooperative, so not sure the original source or if it is available in seeds.

      We get about 21% from our average bud using Everclear, which is close to our BHO yield.

      We just got our gas chromatograph operating, and comparing extraction results from the same batch of material, using different extraction solvents and methods, is near the top of our list, but anecdotal panel testing suggest that it doesn’t reduce the THC content.

      • Posted by scubadoo on March 19, 2013 at 2:36 PM

        A little off topic but have you ever tried fortifying hemp oil? There’s a video on youtube showing this process. You purchase some hemp oil (by the gallon) which contains no cbd & then process some bud or trim through a press. Apparently this fortifies the hemp oil giving it thc & cannabinoids. This would be an economical way to make oil but not sure about the potency it would have. Any thoughts?

        • I’ve used hemps seed oil as a menstruum for cannabis essetial oils, but the greeeen taste wasn’t popular with the test panels.

          • At some point you really need to regard test panels as what they are; people.
            Unless you’re using a sample base of over 10K participants then you’re likely getting results based on something other than efficacy in medicine. Hemp oil as a menstruum is BETTER MEDICINE. Brownies and lollipops etc are great but if you get your hands on some hemp milk, take a good look at the benefits. And that’s just leeched out from mashed hemp seeds in a water base. I think it is incumbent on folks who have the “voice” whether it be internet, dispensaries or other media to be amongst the ones who bother to research BEYOND their comfort zone as “experts”. The newer science is making some old school entities play catch up.
            Raw weed will be the future of cannabis products. Also these products will not be grown for flowers but will be harvested at 5-6 weeks. Recreational THC will always be around but the medical end is going to shift a bit.
            Trends aside, most people who are terminally ill and looking for hope do not place a huge focus on “green taste”. If you can produce a complete plant product, i.e.; some raw constituents (raw hemp seed oil, raw plant oils, etc), some added derivatives (THC/CBD-N/CBGA/etc) you suddenly find yourself providing a very focused range of MEDICINE. I use Chocolate Hemp Milk (water/hemp seed oil)
            along with the above material and have never, EVER had anyone even mention the taste. It’s an important source of Omega 3&6, one dose has almost a gram of Omega 3 ALA, 3 Grams of protein and all the essential amino acids.

            There’s a LOT more but that’s enough to stimulate someone to do some research.
            Anyone who knows anything about cancer knows that people “waste away”.
            If you want to help cancer patients, psoriasis, lupus, etc etc then understand that you are supposed to be the pioneer for them. Nutrition is a huge part of cannabis and a huge part of disease. Thanks

      • 91% Rubbing Alcohol…my method does not require any heating, since decarboxylation takes place thru evaporation. You will not get any more than roughly 26% out of grain alcohol, and it still requires heat. The RA method got me 48.92% THC, .55% CBD and .45% CBN. I use a coffee filter (roughyl 25 microns) to filter out any contaminants. I also use keif as my main extraction substance, although you can use whole buds. I prefer keif, as to keep down any “plant” tastes is RA oil is going to be used for cooking. As well adding a little bit of Olive Oil to the RA Oil will help make it easier t work with. The RA oil is highly sticky. Anyone interested in knowing more, feel free to email me kroelofs78@gmail.com

  59. Posted by Skooga on January 31, 2013 at 3:31 PM

    WHATEVER YOU DO EAT MANGOS BEFORE HAND. EAT MANGOS EVERY DAY. LOOK UP MANGOS AND THC. you don’t have to use as much cannabis. better effects

  60. Posted by scubadoo on January 31, 2013 at 11:46 AM

    Will be picking up some Casey Jones this weekend. What are your thoughts on that strain? Of course when you look it up on line there are conflicting results but it is a bit higher in CBD than other high thc strains according to Budgenius.

    Scubadoo

  61. Posted by scubadoo on January 30, 2013 at 3:26 PM

    Hi GW! Just a thought… if i combine different buds to make my oil, this would probably be good as the higher thc buds are usually lower in CBD’s. I have some buds that when smoked give you a moderate high, so they may be higher in CBD’s. This is all in trying to figure out what’s best to kill cancer cells, as there’s no certainty as to what is killing the cancer cells: is it the high THC levels or high CBD levels. Is there an ideal ratio? Apparently industrial hemp which has no thc is high in CBD’s. Have you any experience with this?
    Found a good site which gives the thc & cbd & cbn on most strains, but again’ there are numerous differences in the numbers depending on where the seeds came from & also the harvesting & curing process of the plant. The site is budgenius.
    I have made some oil using Headband, Great White Shark & Ice mixed together so i’m hoping between the three, i have a higher CBD average number. Does converting buds into oil bring up the CBD content of the product? Please advise!
    By the way, my wife is doing well again with her terminal cancer battle but the oil is definately leading the way. The battle rages on!!!

    Scubadoo

    • Hi brother SD!

      Ultimately, the cannabinoid mix and quantities depend on the strain, all of which decide to convert the joint CBGA precursor to either THCA or CBDA. Mixing different strains is a good way to balance out the contents of several different ones.

      Originally, hemp was high in CBDA and low in THCA, but the recreational market has selectively bred strains which are high in THCA and low in CBDA. Ditch weed industrial hemp is typically high in CBDA and low in THCA, but is also typically a low oil producer.

      We are currently using Cannatonic and Hawaiian Bubble Gift, both bred for high CBD. We also tried Catalyst, which worked well, but only produced about 5.7% Absolute oil, while the former two produce closer to the 20% plus that we get out of strains like the Trainwreck, Amsterdam Flame, U of W bud, Whitewidow, Cheese, etc, which we also grow.

      Converting the plants to oil, doesn’t raise the CBD content, it just concentrates it.

  62. Posted by mike on January 13, 2013 at 1:57 PM

    i did a butane extraction and drove off the butane with a warm water bath. I dissolved the resulting goo in 91% iso and froze to remove waxes. Following filtration I boiled off the alcohol in a 250f oil bath until large randomly sized bubbles were no longer seen and the resulting oil was agar-like at room temp. I did not see the small bubbles that would indicate co2 from decarboxylation but I am concerned that they were simply not noticable amongst all the ethanol bubbles. Do the two bubble types come off together or is there a gap? would you expect decarboxylation to occur simply because I used a 250f bath? What effect would decarboxylation have on finished oil meant for smoking?

    Thanks

    • CO2 also comes off with the solvent bubbles, but typically continue for awhile after the solvent is gone. How old and dry was your material?

      Oil for smoking doesn’t have to be decarboxylated, but decarboxylated oil still works when vaporized or smoked.

      GW

  63. Posted by Neil on December 19, 2012 at 12:36 AM

    Have you ever decarboxylated under reduced pressure?

  64. Posted by Chuck Browne on December 11, 2012 at 8:32 PM

    What kind of oil do you use for the oil bath when decarboxalating ?

  65. Posted by scubadoo on November 30, 2012 at 9:52 AM

    My wife just switched over last night to the ISO made oil i made last week as she ran out of the Naptha produced oil. It will be interesting to see what differences there will be as fas as diarrhea goes. I will keep you posted with the results.
    Stay healthy my friends!

  66. Posted by scubadoo on November 29, 2012 at 4:02 PM

    If the oil was made with buds only & not shake(leaves & scraps)& produces a good high when smoking it, it will work. Smoking it is the only way i know of to test the potency. If it’s over 20% THC it should work just fine as long as the extraction was done properly without overheating the THC when boiling off the solvent. That’s why you should use a rice cooker for the process as it won’t allow the temps to reach the damaging point of the THC. When smoking it, it will feel a bit harsh but you will get a very good & clean high that will last about 3 to 4 hours. That’s how i can tell the quality.
    As for your wife, get her on the oil as quickly as possible. If you’re using capsules to ingest, try to get her to take about 1 gram a day. This is very aggressive but with her condition, you’re out of time for a slow & gradual intake. Even get her some Essiac tea or Flor-Essence tea as this will detox her body so she can try to get her PH alkaline right away because it is proven that cancer cannot survive in an alkaline environment. That alone has saved some people.
    Hope this helps & best of luck to you & your wife.

    • Submitted on 2012/11/29 at 4:02 PM
      If the oil was made with buds only & not shake(leaves & scraps)& produces a good high when smoking it, it will work.
      Smoking it is the only way i know of to test the potency. If it’s over 20% THC it should work just fine as long as the extraction was done properly without overheating the THC when boiling off the solvent.

      Define potency?

      That’s why you should use a rice cooker for the process as it won’t allow the temps to reach the damaging point of the THC.

      One of Rick’s better ideas, as it is easy to burn essential oils without good controls.

      We do the same thing using good controls and a good thermometer, but the rice cooker is a good one size fits all solution to the core issue, which is that you must control the temperature to win.

      We prefer to use hot oil baths at 250F, which is above the boiling point of water in a rice cooker, but does a better job of maximizing THC levels during decarboxylation.

      When smoking it, it will feel a bit harsh but you will get a very good & clean high that will last about 3 to 4 hours. That’s how i can tell the quality.

      That is a good rule of thumb measure of THC content, when all you have is a pipe and lighter.

      Establishing oil potency for medical purposes includes testing THC’s euphoric high properties, but more in depth research reveals that cannabis’s medical properties are more of an entourage effect of all cannabinoids and other terpenes present, than from THC alone.

      Maximum THC content, usually reflects Sativa heritage, and the medical strains are typically Indica dominant, with more balanced levels of CBD.

      We prefer high CBD strains, to complement the high THC, which as a side benefit, attenuates THC’s euphoric high, making it less noticeable. That allows the patient to take higher dosages, without discobobulation, and as you may recall, Rick Simpson recommends a Indica dominant strain.

      Not a put down, as we also had good luck using oil from the higher THC strains; the patients just couldn’t take as much with the undesirable side effect of being functionally incapacitated.

      As for your wife, get her on the oil as quickly as possible. If you’re using capsules to ingest, try to get her to take about 1 gram a day. This is very aggressive but with her condition, you’re out of time for a slow & gradual intake. Even get her some Essiac tea or Flor-Essence tea as this will detox her body so she can try to get her PH alkaline right away because it is proven that cancer cannot survive in an alkaline environment. That alone has saved some people.
      Hope this helps & best of luck to you & your wife

      Thanks for sharing what has worked for your wife brother Scooby! It sounds like you are on the right track and I hope you will keep us updated!

      I agree that time is of the essence and that good meds not taken, are 100% ineffective, regardless of how effective the pluperfect Great Panacea might be.

      As I understand it, Cancer is natures way of telling us that our immune system is not keeping up, because billions of scrambled DNA cells are produced daily in healthy bodies, our immune system just routinely unscrambles them or tells them to die through apoptosis.

      Cancerous tumors are what happens when a cell becomes both abnormal from scrambled DNA, and also immortal. It no longer responds to the indo-cannabinoid system, when it tells it that it is time to commit seppuku.

      The immune system is controlled by our indo-cannabinoid systems, and the CB2 receptors are thought to be principally responsible.
      THC principally targets the CB1 receptors in the brain, while CBD principally targets the CB2 receptors and are believed to restore apoptosis, as well as limit blood supply to tumor cells.

      Good luck to you and your wife Scooby! May ya’ll both experience the embrace of the Great Spirit!

  67. Posted by scubadoo on November 26, 2012 at 8:30 AM

    Definately not good for you that’s why it’s important to make sure you get it all out. Trace amounts won’t harm you as it is below the acceptable limits but making sure it’s all boiled off is critical. Amazing how we use a chemical that can kill us in a process to cure us of a deadly disease…
    Stay healthy.

    • Define trace amounts? Here are the limits for Benzene (C6) as taken from a Science Labs MSDS at http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927339

      Benzene exposure Limits:

      TWA: 0.5 STEL: 2.5 (ppm) from ACGIH (TLV) [United States] TWA: 1.6 STEL: 8 (mg/m3) from ACGIH (TLV) [United States]
      TWA: 0.1 STEL: 1 from NIOSH TWA: 1 STEL: 5 (ppm) from OSHA (PEL) [United States] TWA: 10 (ppm) from OSHA (PEL) [United States] TWA: 3 (ppm) [United Kingdom (UK)] TWA: 1.6 (mg/m3) [United Kingdom (UK)] TWA: 1 (ppm) [Canada] TWA: 3.2 (mg/m3) [Canada] TWA: 0.5 (ppm) [Canada]Consult local authorities for acceptable exposure limits.

      Even given the extremely low, one half part per millionth permissible exposure limits, 10% of that dosage is no guarantee that you won’t develop cancer at a later date, at a lower rate of exposure.

      My personal tolerance for Benzene in my starting solvent is zero expected or detected. That makes the issue of an adequate purge moot.

      Cutting to the core of the matter, I don’t think you condone the use of solvents like benzene, nor do I believe Rick does, but in using the word Naphtha, he invites it in.

      I takes multiple alcohol washes and a hard vacuum for us to get rid of residual Hexane (C6), to below average sensory threshold levels of 130ppm, which we have gone to, after failing to reach those levels just adding water, with which it is functionally immiscible.

      Benzene is an C-6 aromatic molecule, so that human odor threshold is actually as low as 4.68 ppm, but with permissible exposure limits 9.36 times below where our senses lose the ability to detect it.

      I would consider such an extraction that was GC tested and certified Benzene free, but not the sniff and taste test.

      Better yet, use C-6 n-Hexane, which is a light naphtha, but without cancer, mutagenic, or teratogenic properties.

      https://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927187

  68. Posted by scubadoo on November 26, 2012 at 8:25 AM

    My wife has had diarrhea for 3 months now since she’s been on the oil but it is working to eliminate her cancer so the trade off is worth it. Keep in mind that once the cancer is cured she can go off the oil or she could still take minute amounts each day just for maintenance. The oil color is not that important as the long as the potency is there. But the important thing to remember is that it does work. The tendancy to give up & say that it’s not working is there just like it was for my wife after 1 month on the oil but you need to stick it out & believe that it will work as it has for my wife & countless others.

    • We have seen some miraculous things happen on oil too and agree that being chock full o chlorophyll doesn’t keep it from working, while not taking it does!
      We’ve also had folks give up because the oil was just too discombobulating at the dosage required.

      We’ve had the most success keeping folks on our oil, by keeping the chlorophyll low and the use of high CBD strains like Cannatonic, which are less prone to discombobulate patients at high dosages.

      Good luck with your wife bro! Our thoughts and prayers are with you!

      • My wife went into the hospital a few days ago because she could no longer breath with out constant coughing to the point gaging and puking.
        She has the same cancer that scubadoos wife has. They ran a scope down her throat and found major blockage in her airway.They say the tumor is inoperable and the only way to keep the lung from collapsing is to zap it with radiation,of course they want to do chemo all so, but we are refusing to go there.It seems to be growing at an alarming rate,so tomorrow she starts a six week radiation treatment in hopes of shrinking this tumor and maintaining lung function.She is very sick and weak from all the violent diarrhea thats been going on for the last few weeks.A couple questions, we have been administrating the oil though those clear break apart capsules dew to the crappy taste.Any opinions on this method? and is there any where that we can get our oil tested.Feeling a little defeated,trying to keep the faith, but seems we might be running out of time. Praying for all who has been touched by this disease.

        • Sorry to hear of your wife’s ills brother RC, but good to see you using cannabis in your battle plan.

          Some thoughts on the taste of the oil and rebellious gastric tracts, and a question.

          Even pristine cannabis essential oil absolutes in concentration, are not tasty to most and leaves a lingering aftertaste. Putting it in gel caps gets by the initial and aftertaste, but it still may be upsetting to some folk’s gastric tracts, and still may create un-tasty burping.

          What works best for us, is Holy Shit sublingual (under the tongue, which dilutes the oil to 62%, but tastes like cinnamon and myrrh. The reduction in potency per unit volume, just means taking three 538 mg doses/day, vis a vis three 334 mg doses/day using straight concentrate.

          As a transdermal, cannabis essential oils are rapidly absorbed by the blood vessels lining the mouth and tract, so as to not be so concentrated in the stomach.

          Part of the dilution is unrefined coconut oil, which contains medium chain triglycerides that also absorb rapidly, and which ties up the liver breaking it down, so that the cannabinoids are left in the system longer doing their work, before being broken down.

          The balance of cinnamon and myrrh, ostensibly clean the receptors and dilate the blood vessels, besides their own medicinal properties, which hurries things along.

          The question is are you/wife an OMMP patient and near Portland. If so, we can provide trial meds to see if Holy Shit helps, as well as teach you to extract and formulate it yourself.

          No guarantees, but our support is pro bono, no strings attached, and no donations expected or solicited, so let me know if any of that works out for you.

          Sadly we don’t have our GC up and running yet, but are working on it as we speak. In the interim, Oregon Green Lab is available here in Oregon at Oregongreenlab.com. They are in southern Oregon, but have drop off sites around the state.

          I commiserate with your sense of frustration and urgency, and send you both our best wishes and prayers!

          Ohmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

    • the diarrhea may not be from the oil. she may have an intestinal problem or picked up c-diff. lots diarrhea. My patient lost 27 lbs from c-diff she thinks she picked up visiting a nursing home where a patient had c-diff but no signs were posted. I would think the oil would help her digestive tract.

  69. Posted by scubadoo on November 25, 2012 at 9:00 AM

    Apparently in Europe, Naptha is called Benzine. I am not an expert or a scientist but am only stating that this method works to kill cancer. Whether using Naptha or ISO, the trick is to wait until all the Naptha or ISO has evaporated when boiling with a rice cooker. With the batches i made, you cannot taste the solvent & the potency is very good. The starting product is obviously important for the potency & medicinal properties. My wife has also been taking Essiac tea along with the oil. This tea has been used successfully in the past to treat cancer. This can be verified by watching youtube video “Cancer-The forbidden cures”. The tea seems to help settle the stomach in the morning we find.

    • Thanks for the heads up on the Essiac Tea and The forbidden cures video bro!

      Good point on Benzene, as some light naphtha contains Benzene, which is is of major concern: Consider this from Wiki:

      Health effects

      A bottle of benzene. The warnings show benzene is a toxic and flammable liquid.
      Benzene increases the risk of cancer and other illnesses. Benzene is a notorious cause of bone marrow failure. Substantial quantities of epidemiologic, clinical, and laboratory data link benzene to aplastic anemia, acute leukemia, and bone marrow abnormalities.[43][44] The specific hematologic malignancies that benzene is associated with include: acute myeloid leukemia (AML), aplastic anemia, myleodysplastic syndrome (MDS), acute lymphoblastic leukemia (ALL), and chronic myeloid leukemia (CML).[45]
      The American Petroleum Institute (API) stated in 1948 that “it is generally considered that the only absolutely safe concentration for benzene is zero.”[46] The US Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS) classifies benzene as a human carcinogen. Long-term exposure to excessive levels of benzene in the air causes leukemia, a potentially fatal cancer of the blood-forming organs, in susceptible individuals. In particular, Acute myeloid leukemia or acute nonlymphocytic leukemia (AML & ANLL) is not disputed to be caused by benzene.[47] IARC rated benzene as “known to be carcinogenic to humans” (Group 1).
      Human exposure to benzene is a global health problem.[vague] Benzene targets liver, kidney, lung, heart and the brain and can cause DNA strand breaks, chromosomal damage, etc. Benzene causes cancer in both animals and humans. Benzene has been shown to cause cancer in both sexes of multiple species of laboratory animals exposed via various routes.[48][49]
      Some women who inhaled high levels of benzene for many months had irregular menstrualperiods and a decrease in the size of their ovaries. Benzene exposure has been linked directly to the neural birth defects spina bifida andanencephaly.[50] Men exposed to high levels of benzene are more likely to have an abnormal amount of chromosomes in their sperm, which impacts fertility and fetal development.[51]
      [edit]Exposure to benzene

      Light refraction of benzene (above) and water (below)
      Vapors from products that contain benzene, such as glues, paints, furniture wax, and detergents, can also be a source of exposure, although many of these have been modified or reformulated since the late 1970s to eliminate or reduce the benzene content. Air around hazardous waste sites or gas stations may contain higher levels of benzene. Because petroleum hydrocarbon products are complex mixtures of chemicals, risk assessments for these products, in general, focus on specific toxic constituents. The petroleum constituents of primary interest to human health have been the aromatic hydrocarbons (i.e., benzene, ethylbenzene, toluene, and xylenes). In the U.S., OSHA requires that a mixture “shall be assumed to present a carcinogenic hazard if it contains a component in concentrations of 0.1% or greater, which is considered to be a carcinogen.[52][53]
      Outdoor air may contain low levels of benzene from automobile service stations, wood smoke, tobacco smoke, the transfer of gasoline, exhaust from motor vehicles, and industrial emissions.[54] About 50% of the entire nationwide (United States) exposure to benzene results from smoking tobacco or from exposure to tobacco smoke.[55]
      [edit]Inhalation
      Inhaled benzene is primarily expelled unchanged through exhalation. In a human study 16.4 to 41.6% of retained benzene was eliminated through the lungs within five to seven hours after a two- to three-hour exposure to 47 to 110 ppm and only 0.07 to 0.2% of the remaining benzene was excreted unchanged in the urine. After exposure to 63 to 405 mg/m3 of benzene for 1 to 5 hours, 51 to 87% was excreted in the urine as phenol over a period of 23 to 50 hours. In another human study, 30% of absorbed dermally applied benzene, which is primarily metabolized in the liver, was excreted as phenol in the urine.[56]
      [edit]Exposure through smoking
      Exposure of the general population to benzene occurs mainly through breathing, the major sources of benzene being tobacco smoke (about 50%) as well as automobile service stations, exhaust from motor vehicles and industrial emissions (about 20% altogether). According to the CDC, “The mean number of cigarettes per day (cpd) among daily smokers in 1993 was 19.6 (21.3 cpd for men and 17.8 cpd for women) and in 2004 was 16.8 (18.1 cpd for men and 15.3 cpd for women).”http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5444a2.htm According to the August 2007 Public Health Statement, the average smoker smokes 32 cpd, which in turn the average smoker would take in about 1.8 milligrams (mg) of benzene per day. This amount is about 10 times the average daily intake of benzene by nonsmokers.[57]
      [edit]Exposure from soft drinks
      In March 2006, the official Food Standards Agency in Britain conducted a survey of 150 brands of soft drinks. It found that four contained benzene levels above World Health Organization limits. The affected batches were removed from sale.[58] (See also benzene in soft drinks).
      [edit]Case examples
      Water and soil contamination are important pathways of concern for transmission of benzene. In the US alone, approximately 100,000 sites have soil or groundwater contaminated with benzene.[citation needed]
      In 2005, the water supply to the city of Harbin in China with a population of almost nine million people, was cut off because of a major benzene exposure. Benzene leaked into the Songhua River, which supplies drinking water to the city, after an explosion at a China National Petroleum Corporation (CNPC) factory in the city of Jilin on 13 November.[citation needed]
      [edit]Benzene exposure limits
      The United States Environmental Protection Agency has set a maximum contaminant level (MCL) for benzene in drinking water at 0.005 mg/L (5 ppb), as promulgated via the U.S. National Primary Drinking Water Regulations.[59] This regulation is based on preventing benzene leukemogenesis. The maximum contaminant level goal (MCLG), a nonenforceable health goal that would allow an adequate margin of safety for the prevention of adverse effects, is zero benzene concentration in drinking water. The EPA requires that spills or accidental releases into the environment of 10 pounds (4.5 kg) or more of benzene be reported.
      The U.S. Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) has set a permissible exposure limit of 1 part of benzene per million parts of air (1 ppm) in the workplace during an 8-hour workday, 40-hour workweek. The short term exposure limit for airborne benzene is 5 ppm for 15 minutes.[60] These legal limits were based on studies demonstrating compelling evidence of health risk to workers exposed to benzene. The risk from exposure to 1 ppm for a working lifetime has been estimated as 5 excess leukemia deaths per 1,000 employees exposed. (This estimate assumes no threshold for benzene’s carcinogenic effects.) OSHA has also established an action level of 0.5 ppm to encourage even lower exposures in the workplace.[61]
      The U.S. National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) revised the Immediately Dangerous to Life or Health (IDLH) concentration for benzene to 500 ppm. The current NIOSH definition for an IDLH condition, as given in the NIOSH Respirator Selection Logic, is one that poses a threat of exposure to airborne contaminants when that exposure is likely to cause death or immediate or delayed permanent adverse health effects or prevent escape from such an environment [NIOSH 2004]. The purpose of establishing an IDLH value is (1) to ensure that the worker can escape from a given contaminated environment in the event of failure of the respiratory protection equipment and (2) is considered a maximum level above which only a highly reliable breathing apparatus providing maximum worker protection is permitted [NIOSH 2004[62]].[63] In September 1995, NIOSH issued a new policy for developing recommended exposure limits (RELs) for substances, including carcinogens. Because benzene can cause cancer, NIOSH recommends that all workers wear special breathing equipment when they are likely to be exposed to benzene at levels exceeding the REL (10-hour) of 0.1 ppm.[64]The NIOSH STEL (15 min) is 1 ppm.
      American Conference of Governmental Industrial Hygienists (ACGIH) adopted Threshold Limit Values (TLVs) for benzene at 0.5 ppm TWA and 2.5 ppm STEL.

      [edit]Exposure monitoring
      Airborne exposure monitoring for benzene must be conducted in order to properly assess personal exposures and effectiveness of engineering controls. Initial exposure monitoring should be conducted by an industrial hygienist or person specifically trained and experienced in sampling techniques. Contact an AIHA Accredited Laboratory for advice on sampling methods.[65]
      Each employer with a place of employment where occupational exposures to benzene occur shall monitor each of these workplaces and work operations to determine accurately the airborne concentrations of benzene to which employees may be exposed.[66] Representative 8-hour TWA employee exposures need to be determined on the basis of one sample or samples representing the full shift exposure for each job classification in each work area. Unless air samples are taken frequently, the employer does not know the concentration and would not know how much of a protection factor is needed.[67]
      In providing consultation on work safety during oil clean-up operations following the Deepwater Horizon accident, OSHA has worked with a number of other government agencies to protect Gulf cleanup workers. OSHA partnered with the NIOSH to issue “Interim Guidance for Protecting Deepwater Horizon Response Workers and Volunteers” and recommend measures that should be taken to protect workers from a variety of different health hazards that these workers face.[68] OSHA conceded that it recognizes that most of its PELs are outdated and inadequate measures of worker safety. In characterizing worker exposure, OSHA instead relies on more up-to-date recommended protective limits set by organizations such as NIOSH, the ACGIH, and the American Industrial Hygiene Association (AIHA), and not on the older, less protective PELS. Results of air monitoring are compared to the lowest known Occupational Exposure Limit for the listed contaminant for purposes of risk assessment and protective equipment recommendations.[69]
      [edit]Biomarkers of exposure
      Several tests can determine exposure to benzene. Benzene itself can be measured in breath, blood or urine, but such testing is usually limited to the first 24 hours post-exposure due to the relatively rapid removal of the chemical by exhalation or biotransformation. Most persons in developed countries have measureable baseline levels of benzene and other aromatic petroleum hydrocarbons in their blood. In the body, benzene is enzymatically converted to a series of oxidation products including muconic acid, phenylmercapturic acid, phenol,catechol, hydroquinone and 1,2,4-trihydroxybenzene. Most of these metabolites have some value as biomarkers of human exposure, since they accumulate in the urine in proportion to the extent and duration of exposure, and they may still be present for some days after exposure has ceased. The current ACGIH biological exposure limits for occupational exposure are 500 μg/g creatinine for muconic acid and 25 μg/g creatinine for phenylmercapturic acid in an end-of-shift urine specimen.[70][71][72][73]
      [edit]Biotransformations
      Even if it is not a common substrate for the metabolism of organisms, benzene can be oxidized by both bacteria and eukaryotes. In bacteria, dioxygenase enzyme can add an oxygen molecule to the ring, and the unstable product is immediately reduced (by NADH) to a cyclic diol with two double bonds, breaking the aromaticity. Next, the diol is newly reduced by NADH to catechol. The catechol is then metabolized to acetyl CoA and succinyl CoA, used by organisms mainly in the Krebs Cycle for energy production.
      The pathway for the metabolism of benzene is complex and begins in the liver. Several key enzymes are involved. These includecytochrome P450 2E1 (CYP2E1), quinine oxidoreductase (NQ01), GSH, and myeloperoxidase (MPO). CYP2E1 is involved at multiple steps: converting benzene to oxepin (benzene oxide), phenol to hydroquinone, and hydroquinone to both benzenetriol and catechol. Hydroquinone, benzenetriol and catechol are converted to polyphenols. In the bone marrow, MPO converts these polyphenols to benzoquinones. These intermediates and metabolites induce genotoxicity by multiple mechanisms including inhibition of topoisomerase II (which maintains chromosome structure), disruption of microtubules (which maintains cellular structure and organization), generation of oxygen free radicals (unstable species) that may lead to point mutations, increasing oxidative stress, inducing DNA strand breaks, and altering DNA methylation (which can affect gene expression). NQ01 and GSH shift metabolism away from toxicity. NQ01 metabolizes benzoquinone toward polyphenols (counteracting the effect of MPO). GSH is involved with the formation of phenylmercapturic acid.[45][74]
      Genetic polymorphisms in these enzymes may induce loss of function or gain of function. For example, mutations in CYP2E1 increase activity and result in increased generation of toxic metabolites. NQ01 mutations result in loss of function and may result in decreased detoxification. Myeloperoxidase mutations result in loss of function and may result in decreased generation of toxic metabolites. GSH mutations or deletions result in loss of function and result in decreased detoxification. These genes may be targets for genetic screening for susceptibility to benzene toxicity.[75]
      [edit]Molecular toxicology
      The paradigm of toxicological assessment of benzene is shifting towards the domain of molecular toxicology as it allows understanding of fundamental biological mechanisms in a better way. Glutathione seems to play an important role by protecting against benzene-induced DNA breaks and it is being identified as a new biomarker for exposure and effect.[76] Benzene causes chromosomal aberrations in the peripheral blood leukocytes and bone marrow explaining the higher incidence of leukemia and multiple myeloma caused by chronic exposure. These aberrations can be monitored using fluorescent in situ hybridization (FISH) with DNA probes to assess the effects of benzene along with the hematological tests as markers of hematotoxicity.[77] Benzene metabolism involves enzymes coded for by polymorphic genes. Studies have shown that genotype at these loci may influence susceptibility to the toxic effects of benzene exposure. Individuals carrying variant of NAD(P)H:quinone oxidoreductase 1 (NQO1), microsomal epoxide hydrolase (EPHX) and deletion of the glutathione S-transferase T1 (GSTT1) showed a greater frequency of DNA single-stranded breaks.[78]
      [edit]Biological oxidation and carcinogenic activity
      One way of understanding the carcinogenic effects of benzene is by examining the products of biological oxidation. Pure benzene, for example, oxidizes in the body to produce an epoxide, benzene oxide, which is not excreted readily and can interact with DNA to produce harmful mutations.
      [edit]Summary
      According to the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR) (2007), benzene is both an anthropogenically produced and naturally occurring chemical from processes that include: volcanic eruptions, wild fires, synthesis of chemicals such as phenol, production of synthetic fibers, and fabrication of rubbers, lubricants, pesticides, medications, and dyes. The major sources of benzene exposure are tobacco smoke, automobile service stations, exhaust from motor vehicles, and industrial emissions; however, ingestion and dermal absorption of benzene can also occur through contact with contaminated water. Benzene is hepatically metabolized and excreted in the urine. Measurement of air and water levels of benzene is accomplished through collection via activated charcoal tubes, which are then analyzed with a gas chromatograph. The measurement of benzene in humans can be accomplished via urine, blood, and breath tests; however, all of these have their limitations because benzene is rapidly metabolized in the human body into by-products called metabolites.[79]
      OSHA regulates levels of benzene in the workplace.[80] The maximum allowable amount of benzene in workroom air during an 8-hour workday, 40-hour workweek is 1 ppm. Because benzene can cause cancer, NIOSH recommends that all workers wear special breathing equipment when they are likely to be exposed to benzene at levels exceeding the recommended

      • Benzine is another name for petroleum ether. This is not benzene.

        primary components of the fraction being pentane and hexane. The ratio of the two determine the rating of the ether. 40-60, 60-80 ratings are based on bp.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum_ether

        • Simple alkanes like pentane and hexane are the prefered mix for our use, but the boiling point range allows some manufactures to add more complex aromatic alkenes, that boil within the same range.

          It is critical that you review the individual manufacturers MSDS if you are relying on a naphtha designation, as opposed to pentane and hexane.

          GW

  70. Posted by scubadoo on November 24, 2012 at 9:02 AM

    I have made 3 batches using pure Naptha & was very successful. My latest batch was made with ISO 99% available from Costco & seems equally as good however my wife hasn’t tried it yet as she still has some Naptha produced oil to finish first. I usually smoke a joint of the oil to test potency & the potency is there with either process i have used. Rick Simpson does say that his solvent of choice is Ether then Naptha, then ISO but does go on to say that either does the job. The problem i found is trying to find pure Naptha. Only 1 store in my town carries it but they have been out for over a month now. The only difference with the finished products is that the oil i did with ISO is darker in color, not as gold in color but that’s because ISO draws from the chlorophyll of the plant unlike Naptha. BHO oil does not heat the oil to a decarboxilation temp so i’m not sure how good it would be as a medicine because the process is usually done with a honeybee extractor or home made extractor. It is unfortunate the gov’t doesn’t recognize the potential of this oil & research it further so we can fine tune the medicinal values of each strain of hemp. Like i said earlier the oil works absolutely as that’s why my wife is still alive today & doing well. The oncologists are baffled as they deemed her cancer uncurable(non small cell lung cancer stage 4 Edemo Carcinoma)metastasised in both lungs & liver. Last week’s cat scan revealed shrinkage in her tumors & lower cancer blood counts.
    I was a little skeptical at first about this as you would think that if there’s a cure for cancer out there, we would know about it right?? But wow did this ever open up my eyes to what the real medical system agenda is all about…

    • There is no doubt that you can do a pristine extraction using Naphtha, but define Naphtha?

      The word Naphtha is an ancient word and currently means a mixture of those hydrocarbon molecules that boil between 30C and 200C. Even if you add the word Light, before the word Naphtha, it still only means molecules that boil between 30C and 90C.

      Ostensibly that is molecules with 5 or 6 carbons in the chain, like the simple alkanes n-Pentane and n-Hexane, but it doesn’t specify them and leaves open to interpretation what those hydrocarbons are.

      If you Google Light Naphtha MSDS, you will note that the contents vary considerably from manufacturer to manufacturer, and some of the 5 and 6 carbon chains used are known carcinogens.

      If you want to do a 5 or 6 carbon chain solvent extraction, it is easy to obtain HPLC grades of Pentane and Hexane, which are simple alkanes, that do exactly what Light Naphtha made without the carcinogens does. We in fact use HPLC n-Hexane for that purpose.

    • thanks guys for responding,feel so helpless reading all the many different procedures. so I should assume that my oil is high in chlorophyll, and thats possibly causing the diarrhea.my oil was on the coffee warmer for quite some time.I want so say around 2 or 3 hours.I didn’t think there was enough heat so I used a coffee maker for a short time,always making sure it didn’t get hot. So will repeating the final steps , reheating and adding a few drops of water lower my chlorophyll.The oil is perfect in color and seems very strong and do believe I got all the bubbles out.Looked nice and smooth just like the end product should………I think .Very Very scary time in our life,my wife also has a non small cell carcinoma in one lung, stage 3 ,and some swollen lymph glads in here chest.Trying to keep the faith, but its hard when every thing is running right through her. Thank you for any help you can give.

      • I wouldn’t just assume chlorophyll, as it could also be something else. If you smear it on white paper in a thin streak, concentrated chlorophyll will produce a dark green one.

        No easy way to get rid of chlorophyll, once it is there, so it is easier to just avoid in the first place.

        I can commiserate with your wife’s losing her meds due to diarrhea issues, and suggest that you might also consider using three sublingual doses of Holy Shit a day, instead of a pill directly to her stomach.

      • I used 99% iso for about three years. iso has the ability to produce gastric problems.

        I believe that the small particles of plant matter tend to hold the iso more than the oil.

        If you don’t have vacuum filtering equipment available, let gravity help separate the dust. Allow the filtered mix to set for several hours before pouring the liquid off. Only pour off the top half to 2/3 of the liquid. Doing what you can to avoid disturbing the dust in the bottom. Pour the remaining liquid into a smaller container and repeat. Let it set and gently pour off the majority from the top.

        I think that keeping the dust out helps avoid leftover solvent.

  71. Posted by scubadoo on November 23, 2012 at 2:21 PM

    Yes you can but a coffee warmer won’t get hot enough to decarb your oil if that’s what you’re trying to do. As far as the diarrhea goes, with my personal experience, the oil will cause that. I have done different batches of oil with different strains & all have a different result as far as diarrhea is concerned. My wife’s been on it for 3 months now & her stage 4 cancer is receding when she was given 3 – 6 months to live 3 months ago,so hang in there with the oil as it does work. The diet change when you have cancer will contribute to the diarrhea as well. People don’t expect the oil to taste that bad when ingesting, but the fact of the matter is it tastes terrible but that’s normal as long as you don’t taste the solvent used to make the oil. Phoenixtears.ca Rick Simpson’s website has all the info on this the making of the oil & other info on the subject. Also the youtube video “Run From The Cure” must be seen.

    • Thanks for sharing SD!

      What I’ve found, is my own patients stopped having digestive tract upset when I stopped using processes that concentrated the chlorophyll in the product.
      Other’s patients have also come to us for relief, after the Iso refluxed oil they were given gave them cramps and diarrhea. Washing that oil in hexane and brine to remove the chlorophyll relieved their symptoms, though most of the oil was lost in the process.

      None of those patients subsequently reacted to our BHOAA, or QWET oil extractions, so you can see why I might have come to feel the way I do.
      Of note, is that not everyone taking the offending suppliers oil had digestive upset and a number report symptom relief. For those that did however, it was bad enough to be a deal breaker.

      Good point on a new diet or cancer giving patients diarrhea, but that wasn’t the case with most of the patients in question.

      Good point on Rick Simpson as well! Everyone interested in the MMJ movement, should familiarize themselves with Rick Simpson and Phoenix Tears. Few folks have put as much effort into the movement than he has, and he deserves recognition for the good that he has done.

      Like any other site, including this one, I recommend taking what you can use and ignoring the rest. I for instance agree in general with Rick, but not his choice of solvents, or process.

      If he would change his specification to Hexane or Pentane, instead of light Naphtha, we would be mostly in harmony, but he currently states that his method is the only way. That appears to be a departure from his earlier statements that the processes that he presented were simply ones that almost anyone could do, and which were effective enough.

      The fish trap exists only because of the fish, and if you get the fish, what does the design of the fish trap matter? I judge the effectiveness of a process, by whether or not the goals were achieved, one of which is to not introduce any uncontrolled variables that can affect quality.

      Variables like the different mixtures of solvents found in various manufacturers light naphtha recipes, some of which are on health watch lists.

  72. followed ricks instructions as best i could, but my patient has had a bad case of diarrhea since starting the oil.[around 4 weeks].also changed diet to all organic juicing.So not sure if thats contributing to the problem.My question is,can i safely squeeze my remaining oil back into the stainless steal cup and reheat on the coffee warmer with out doing it any harm?

    • Concentrated chlorophyll is the single greatest reason that we continue to get other oil producers patients with severe gastric upset. While salubrious in normal concentrations, upset from concentrate OD has been common in these parts.

      Yes, but keep the temperatures low as decarboxylation and THC evolution to CBN is a time at temperature thang.

  73. Posted by greenpassion420 on November 11, 2012 at 9:09 AM

    hey there GW, been following a lot of your stuff lately, very new to the oil field, but planning on lovin it!

    anyway, im wondering if instead of an oil bath, you could instead use sand? i read on another sight about it and it seemed legit. they weren’t using it for decarbing our precious oil, but im wondering if it will have the same effect? i ws thinking, just dump some sand in an electric griddle or similar, heat it to the same temps and run everything the same, only difference is sand instead of water.

    does this sound tangible?

  74. Posted by maxx on October 31, 2012 at 9:04 PM

    do you decarb the plant material in the oven before you place it in the thermos to extract with butane?

    • Usually not, because when we use a thermos to extract, we are planning to use the oil for vaporization.

      Oil will extract faster after decarboxylation, if you use a non polar solvent, because carboxylic acid forms are polar.

      • Posted by maxx on November 2, 2012 at 8:56 PM

        What about if you plan to consume orally? do you decarb the plant material before extraction?

        • Posted by maxx on November 2, 2012 at 9:11 PM

          if so, what temp? and how long?

          • Posted by maxx on November 2, 2012 at 9:17 PM

            also, do you decarb for “cannacaps” (thc pills) before you extract with oil or butter?

            sorry for all the questions

          • No, because the hot extraction process does it for us.

          • If you wish to decarboxylate plant material, I would put it in a very thin layer on a cookie sheet, and place it in an oven stabalized at 250F for 27 minutes. Decarboxylation will improve the extraction efficiency using non polar solvents, though butter and some oils like coconut oil, still have a lot of polar water in them, so the effect is not huge.

            GW

        • We decarboxylate all of our oral potions, but we decarboxylate our oils after extraction, because it is easier to tell precisely where we are with regard to decarboxylation, by watching the bubbles.

          GW

          • Posted by maxx on November 3, 2012 at 11:18 PM

            thank you for all the answers your great.

            one more lol could you soak the plant material in water to get rid of the more polar soluble properties? would that make the thc stronger or more easily extracted once the plant material has dried out?

          • There are water wash techniques that do just that, and do produce a milder smoke, but you can’t handle plant material without losing trichomes, so you would have to do it using filters to recover them, or they would be lost.

            It wouldn’t make the THC stronger and would most likely reduce the overall yield. It would reduce the amount of chlorophyll available for the alcohol to dissolve, but there would still be lots left, so there wounldn’t be much advantage that I can see.

            It is easy enough to use a technique that controls chlorophyll pickup extracting with a polar solvent like alcohol, or you can use a non polar solvent like butane or hexane, to mostly sidestep the issue all together.

          • Posted by maxx on November 4, 2012 at 7:49 PM

            what would be the perfect time and temp to extract the plant material to coconut oil? for both decarboxylated and un-decarboxylated plant material before extraction

          • We use a 212F boiling water bath and heat cycle for 12/14 hours.

  75. Posted by green on September 28, 2012 at 3:16 AM

    i have green liquid with 91 or 99% thats red in the light. its green rubbing alcohol but it comes out amber in the end. Any idea why? I soak and filter through coffee filters and boil down with double boil-water and pyrex

    • Are you saying that the rubbing alcohol starts out colored green in the bottle, before you start extraction, or that it turns green during extraction?

      • Posted by green on September 28, 2012 at 5:57 AM

        it was dry trim or even fan leaves. we tried many varieties and get amber in the end with the “goo”. We just used clear 91 or 99% rubbing alcohol and the clear soaked at times for an hour to one 5 gallon bucket of fans even. poured in clear. soaked the 5 gallon till matter was yellow and liquid was super dark green. boiled down to the goo at it was amber but the whole while it was green liquid we were boiling down.

  76. Posted by scubadoo on September 6, 2012 at 5:08 PM

    I’ve heard that oil will not be medicinal or have enough CBD in it if it is not decarboxylated during the process of making it. This would apply to BHO as the butane evaporates easily & doesn’t require heating to a decarb temp. Can you just heat the oil in a glass vial after to decarb?

    • You could, but it would probably fizz over. Better in a bigger, shallower pan to let the fizzy CO2 bubbles excape. Here is how we do it:

      http://skunkpharmresearch.com/decarboxylation/

      • Posted by scubadoo on September 6, 2012 at 6:22 PM

        Thanks! The reason i am asking is because i am trying to treat a cancer patient with medicinal oil (as per Rick Simpson)but am not sure if the oil i’m using has been decarboxylated or not or would it still be effective as a medicine if it wasn’t decarbed? I know the oil was done with alcohol but looks like honey. If Isopropyl alcohol was used would the oil not be dark in color from the chlorophyll draw from the plant?

        • Rick Simpson’s process would definitely decarboxylate the oil and we have always decarboxylated ours.

          Conventional wisdom is that it should be decarboxylated to be orally active, but some of that may be because THCA doesn’t readily pass the blood brain barrier and most people notice the effects on their brains psychoactive CB1 receptors, more than the immune systems CB2′s receptors scattered throughout the body.

          There used to be no question about it being necessary to decarboxylate, but successes juicing have reopened the question.

          Since form determines fit and function when it comes to neurotransmitters, it is unlikely that both the CBDA and CBD molecule fits the same receptor sites, so the successes may be due to different endo cannabinoid receptor sites in the body, as they do continue to discover new ones.

          My latest thinking is to use both juicing and cannabis oil where possible. We just picked up a wheat grass juicer to check it out.

          We supported one cancer patient that was sent home to put his affairs in order and who started juicing on his own. He stopped passing blood and is now a year past his predicted demise date.

          He contacted us and tried taking oil during that period, but he started bleeding again, so he discontinued it and returned to just juicing.

          A well made QWISO using isopropyl can be amber colored. They tend to be more reddish than QWET extractions using ethanol.

          Neither need have green in them, though it is not uncommon for them to do so, because the process has to be closely controlled.

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