Extracting With Oils

Oil and fat extraction is a methodSkunk PharmResearch will be further developing, so watch this thread.

Cannabinoids and the other terpenes in cannabis, are readily dissolvable in fats and oils, so fats and oils may be used for both extraction and as a menstruum.

When I say fats and oils, I am referring to the vegetable and nut oils, as well as clarified butter.  Oils tasty enough that may be ingested with a dropper, mixed with drinks, or used in medibles.

Water solubility varies, but one of the advantages of using oil for extractions, is that they are for the most part non soluble in water, so they don’t extract excessive water soluble constitutes, like chlorophyll.

There are practical limits to the potency that can be achieved extracting with oil, because as the oil becomes saturated with cannabis terpenes, they become less concentrated and their solvent action slows down to a crawl, before stopping altogether.

Potency can be ratcheted up somewhat through using the same oil to do multiple extractions of fresh material, but even that has limitations.

A key factor in achieving maximum removal rates and efficiency, is keeping the boundary layer between the un-dissolved resins and the unsaturated oils used for extraction regularly removed.  The method that we used in this experiment, was simple, but through periodic stirring.

Sublingual oil tinctures: 

Aside for their useful role in extraction, oils and fats may be mixed at any ratios with cannabis terpenes, if you are just mixing them together as oils.  Some of them are damn tasty even taken from a dropper, though as the concentration increases, the flavor becomes less fetching and it leaves more of a lingering aftertaste.

Choose an Oil:

We haven’t tried them all, but we have tried Almond, Avocado, Butter, Canola, Coconut oil, Grape Seed oil, Hemp seed oil, Olive, Pecan, Sesame, and Walnut oils.  They all work well, so they are a good place to start, if you are new to extraction.

Here is a good link for determining the smoke points of the various oils:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke_point

Preparing the material:

We first start by drying the trim.  For the most floral flavor and the highest amount of lighter terpenes, material that is hung until it reaches the small stem snap stage is best for our purposes.

In our experience, for best flavor and taste, freshest material works best.  Older cured material loses the nuances of the floral undertones and just tastes like hash.

That means that the degree of drying and curing is also critical, if your goal is to maintain maximum terpene content.  Not that hash has a bad flavor, but it should be a conscious choice.

Choosing material:

Oil from buds is tastier than oil from even sugar trim, because most of the terpenes are produced by the buds, and that is where they are the most plentiful.  Tasty is usually not a word used to describe oil from fan leaves or stems, though effective may be.

The material that we used in this experiment, was donated sweet trim from Chocolate and was well dried and cured.

Oils used in this experiment:

We used Ghee (clarified butter), Coconut oil, Grape Seed oil, and Olive oil for the run, because they are commonly available and inexpensive.

Making Ghee:

To make the Ghee, we melted unsalted butter and cooked it at low temperature, until the butter fats separated from the Ghee.  We then skimmed off the floating butter fats, and sucked off the Ghee, using a turkey baster, leaving the heavier butter fats in the bottom of the pot.

Most recipes for extraction with butter call for boiling the material in water and butter, but we studiously avoid adding water and our Ghee extraction has only the lightest tinge of green and no chlorophyll flavor.

Here are the three extractions taken out of the refrigerator, where they were stored between cooking and actual pressing.  Note that the butter, olive oil, and the coconut extractions have a slightest green tinge, yet none actually had a chlorophyll flavor.

In this experiment, we didn’t attempt to reach maximum saturation, but to determine what was reasonable to expect from a single batch.  To reach maximum saturation, we would have simply processed more than one batch of fresh material through the oil.

What we did, was fill four jars 3/4 full of the trim and then added enough oil to cover it, stirred it thoroughly, and then added another inch of oil.

We then lightly capped the jars and set them in pot of hot water and simmered it on low for six hours, uncapping and stirring thoroughly a couple of times an hour.

At the end of six hours, we removed the jars from the hot water and set them aside to cool.  The next day, we cooked them two more hours, stirring regularly, and the third day we cooked them another six hours, for 14 hours total, with three heat cycles.

Lightly capping means snug enough to allow some pressure to build, but loose enough to vent off anything excessive.  Since we used cured material and didn’t add water, there were little in the way of volatiles to boil off and produce pressure.

I left the lid off the boiling pot, so as to not force steam into the jar head space.

For pressing, we warmed the oils and ghee up by placing them in boiling water, this time with the lids on tight and the lid on the pot.

Next we cut up some rags from some surplus drape material, with approximately a 160/200 thread count,  and draped it over a restaurant sized potato ricer that we scored at Hongs Restaurant Supply in Portland.  By pressing it down into the potato ricer, it formed a pocket that holds approximately a quart of plant material.

Folding the cloth over and pressing it, produced  a pristine clear oil, which was tasty enough to dropper.

 The most flavorful, was the ghee, and possibly the fastest to uptake and produce an effect.  Alas, after just testing just enough of each of them to determine their flavors, I needed a nap, so the next phase of this project, is to titrate for potency and effect, as well as flavor, using volunteer test panels.

We also will experiment with different ways to use the oils in medibles, so stay tuned!

75 responses to this post.

  1. Posted by Mainah on June 15, 2013 at 11:17 AM

    Gray wolf,
    Awesome site! Thank you ever so much! When simmering the oil, are the jars sitting directly on the bottom of the pot, or do you use ball jar lids to lift them up a little as you do in the Cuisinart? And, why or why not?
    Thanks again!

    Reply

  2. Posted by Dissofiddle on May 30, 2013 at 11:57 AM

    hello !

    I d like to know what is the conservation time of those extract ? Because, actually I ve heard that heating oils make them loose their antoxydants which implies a loss of conservation time.

    thank you guys !

    Reply

  3. Posted by Lebowski on May 29, 2013 at 7:36 AM

    Brilliant and exciting work you guys are doing. I have been doing single serving coconut oil extracts and I am trying to make it happen in under 30 minutes. I know that seems ridiculous but that’s my goal. I have been trying various temps and times and have had some success. I break up about .5G and put it into a Pyrex dish. I mix in about a tablespoon or little more or less just to cover the mj with oil. I add about a quarter teaspoon of soy lecithin and a small capful of 151. I use an ir temp gun and regulate the temperature of the oil to whatever temp I am currently testing. I seem to have more success with hotter temps like 320 for 20-25 minutes. I am well aware of thc’s 300-315F boiling point and I am curious on why it works that way. I am using a toaster oven because I want to be able to show people this process so it’s quick and easy. I appreciate any input.

    Reply

    • Interesting technique brother Lebowski! We’ve never tried it that way, so nothing to compare it to.

      How long into the 20/25 minutes before the alcohol is gone?

      Reply

      • Posted by Lebowski on May 30, 2013 at 11:52 AM

        Probably about 5-8 minutes. Sometimes I actually add it at the very end. The oil gets pretty volatile when you add the cap full because the boiling point of alcohol is obviously much lower than the coco oil. I got the idea from an organic chemist that says the quick violent reaction causes the thc to “jump” off of the plant material. Still working on an exact cook time.

        Reply

  4. Posted by dissofiddle on May 22, 2013 at 3:33 PM

    hello ,

    I d like to know : what is the difference of potency between ghee and glycerin extraction for a same amount of liquid ?
    I mean, for instance, do I need how much tincture spoon to be equal to a ghee spoon ? ( both made of the same amount of material )
    and if both the ghee and the glycerin are saturated ? ( different amount of fresh material… until saturation )

    Reply

  5. Posted by poplars on May 10, 2013 at 3:59 PM

    so I know I’ve been asking a lot of questions, you guys seem to have the answers! I was wondering if infused oils can be absorbed sublingually?

    Reply

    • Yes, the cannabis essential oils suspended in them can be absorbed sublingualy.

      Reply

      • Posted by poplars on May 12, 2013 at 11:22 AM

        thanks, one last question if I can… I have this oil that I concentrated pretty highly, but it doesn’t seem to have the effect I was expecting, the process was:

        warm wash ethanol 190 proof with a 1 quart mason jar 3/4th full, covered with ethanol, warm washed for 4 mins, strained, then put fresh material in and repeated.

        this process was repeated 5 times, then the resulting completely black oil, looking black in the light.

        the material used was completely dry, and had been for months in a dry curing room at room temperature since last october. the room was dark though.

        this liquid was transferred into 4 oz of extra virgin coconut oil, 4 teaspoons of lecithin was melted into this mixture.

        after testing, I then put it in a 250F oil bath, following the curve until the co2 bubbles tapered.

        the thing is, I figured this oil would be active within a few dropperfuls (a few mL…) but it seems to only be lightly effective.

        any ideas on where I may have gone wrong here? I understand this is alot of information and I tried to present it in a reasonable fashion. I don’t expect you to take time to respond to this but I’d greatly appreciate it if you do.

        thanks

        Reply

        • The black would probably look dark green in smeared on white paper. It isn’t a measure of oil concentration.

          I would suggest checking your math first.

          We’ve found 100 mg BHO Absolute to be a good pain dose for a low tolerance person and 300 mg to be adequate for most heavy tolerance patients.

          We average about 20% Absolute oil yield by weight, after winterizing, so if you had an oz of material in the quart jar, you would have had 28.3 grams X .20 = 5.7 grams of oil, or 57 low tolerance doses/ 19 high tolerance doses.

          You might check your numbers with actual weights.

          Reply

  6. Posted by Brad on May 9, 2013 at 5:51 AM

    Are saying that the alcohol simply caused the extraction of the thc, etc., to occur more rapidly, but not necessarily more effectively, i.e., the resulting product of an oil only process (with a basic crock pot) would eventually be just as potent as if some alcohol were added, but it would require more time?

    Reply

    • Alcohol will extract the polar elements faster, but if the material has been decarboxylated, the cannabinoids are no longer polar.

      One of the projects on the list for our new GC, is to extract samples from the same lot of material, using different processes to ferret out the nuances, but thus far, anecdotal testing hasn’t shown any improved potency.

      Anecdotal testing may not reveal the fine nuances, so I will defer taking a strong stand until I have tested with a gas chromatograph, but any improvement would be subtle.

      Reply

  7. Posted by brad on May 9, 2013 at 5:25 AM

    I have been extracting with oil for a while (crock pot, 12 hrs.). However, the most recent time I added a couple ounces of Everclear alcohol as well. By the end of the cook time all the alcohol had evaporated, of course, and the final oil was a greener than normal, (which doesn’t bother me), but more importantly, the potency seemed much, much stronger. Does this make any sense?

    Reply

  8. Posted by poplars on May 6, 2013 at 5:22 PM

    definitely still interested in hearing more results from these oil extractions :D

    Reply

    • Consider one of our classes?

      Reply

      • Posted by poplars on May 7, 2013 at 9:48 AM

        I’m in california so that would present a sort of logistical challenge…. maybe one day? guess you guys aren’t planning on posting it online or just waiting for more results?

        Reply

        • Posted by poplars on May 7, 2013 at 9:48 AM

          I’m also trying my hand at a grape seed oil extraction in this method, going to be running it with fresh material 3 or 4 times :)

          Reply

        • OK, now I understand the question! We got tied up building the lab and by the time we sent notices out to the volunteer test panel members, we got no response. As there was still plenty of projects to keep our idle hands busy, we didn’t assign it a high priority, but point well taken. We need to follow through!

          Let me see when we can fit it into the GC testing schedule, and assemble another volunteer test panel.

          PS: We get lots of CA students, some from southern CA. Maybe someone you know is already driving up, or you could share the experience with someone else who wants to?

          Reply

  9. Posted by poplars on March 31, 2013 at 3:10 PM

    any further conclusions on which oil is best? so far I’ve been noticing a significant difference between ghee and coconut oil for over all effect when following the same exact methods.

    Reply

    • Sorry no, we planned to have our test panel evaluate it, but that hasn’t worked out yet.

      Which is working best for you?

      Reply

      • Posted by poplars on April 2, 2013 at 5:55 PM

        been experimenting with ghee and coconut oil, so far I’ve had ghee work amazing once, coconut oil seems to work pretty well but I’m still working on figuring it out.

        Reply

  10. “Alas, after just testing just enough of each of them to determine their flavors, I needed a nap, so the next phase of this project, is to titrate for potency and effect, as well as flavor, using volunteer test panels.”

    hahaaaaaaaaaa

    Reply

  11. Posted by Dissofiddle on March 16, 2013 at 7:40 AM

    ok Thank you !
    I Think I got the main ideas for a good oil extraction / glycerine tincture, but the last questions remaining was about that.
    Acually , I heard once by someone ( maybe not as reliable as I thought ) , that it was difficult to permorm good glycerin tinctures as the water boils off and that so it looses its potency. I found it was a weird speech however as the cannabinoids are not hygroscopic.
    I know some fellows who failed their 24h glycerin hot extraction, and it was the explaination that was given ( but my opinion is about a bad decarboxylation or poor material ) . what do you thiink ?

    thanks again. This website is amazing , it is difficult to find good extraction tutorial on the internet

    Reply

    • I don’t understand where water would come into play with glycerin extraction. Was he using water in a double boiler or mixing water with the glycerin?

      Reply

      • Posted by Dissofiddle on March 16, 2013 at 10:26 AM

        Neither , I didn’t explain it very well. Actually , he means that the water that glycerin contains naturally ( it seems that glycerin absorbs water from the ambiant air as much as 20% of the glycerin weight ) will boils off without a lid during a hot extraction.
        For him , it is the reason why hot glycerin tincture are difficult to achieve. So when I read your tutorial, I asked myself about this issue again. ( as you keep the lid on your jars ).

        Reply

  12. Posted by Dissofiddle on March 15, 2013 at 9:44 AM

    hello !
    Your tutorial are awesome !
    But i wanted to know, why do you need pressure in the mason/canning jar during the process ?
    I mean , it is less efficient without pressure ? why ?

    Reply

  13. Posted by Brad on March 3, 2013 at 9:14 AM

    Thanks for your quick reply. So totally unnecessary and a waste of time, I get it. Just curious from a chemistry standpoint, do you think it will significantly effect the final product (assuming all the water is separated from the oil at the end of the process via freezing)? Thanks!

    Reply

  14. Posted by Brian on March 2, 2013 at 8:36 PM

    Do you also recommend against using water with an oil extraction (grape seed oil)? Also, I once heard that coconut oil is the best to use because of the higher proportion of saturated fat…in any case, what do you think about this: 1/2 oz flowers, 1 1/4 grape seed oil, & 4 cups water – in a crock pot for 8 hours. How many hours is really necessary, and do suggest heat cycling for the best results? As I understand it, my crock pot cooks at 209 F. I’m not 100%, but the oil/water mixture does bubble continuously after it reaches the maximum temperature.

    Reply

  15. Could you use Light Corn Syrup for extraction? It has little to no fat but is high in sugar, so I am unsure

    Reply

  16. Posted by Docoptic on October 11, 2012 at 11:05 AM

    Hi, love your website. We have been doing butter extractions for several years now for use in baked goods. Our process is slightly different from yours! We put about 2 ounces of flowers ground in a normal bud grinder into a quart mason jar. We add about a cup of water just to wet the material and then add 1 pound of unsalted butter. This is sealed and put into a pot of hot (not boiling) water for about 5 min to completely melt the butter. We then agitate for about 10 min by hand. The temperature is low enough to handle the jar without discomfort (so ~ 110 to 120 F). We put the jar back into the hot water for another 5 minutes just to heat it up a bit and repeat this process for only an hour or so total. Strain and put in the refrigerator (putting the jar on its side not upright). The water and butter separate of course! We drain off the water and add more clean water and gently remelt the butter. Agitate the mix and put back into the fridge. We do this 3 or 4 times till the water comes off clean (usually very slightly milky). It make a very light green butter that is wonderful in brownies or (my favorite) molasses cookies. We have been baking at 310 F to help retain the active ingredients.
    My wife uses these for pain and especially insomnia. Works better for insomnia than anything she has tried!

    Question: Would adding salt water instead of just water help remove more chlorophyll?

    Cheers!

    Reply

    • Adding salt should help keep an emulsion layer from forming and it will help keep alot if not all free chlorophyll from complexing with the organic layer. It also helps to add an acid (vinegar) to help the process. I have not tried this method with butter and it may make it unpalatable. I am speaking strictly from a chemistry point of view.

      Joe

      Reply

      • Posted by Lance on January 28, 2013 at 11:42 PM

        Yo awesome website! How much vinegar would u recommend using? And I assume you mean with hexane in a seperatory funnel?
        Peace
        Thanks

        Reply

        • Ummm, where are you using vinegar?

          Reply

          • Posted by Lance on January 31, 2013 at 9:14 PM

            I was reading this paragraph: Adding salt should help keep an emulsion layer from forming and it will help keep alot if not all free chlorophyll from complexing with the organic layer. It also helps to add an acid (vinegar) to help the process. I have not tried this method with butter and it may make it unpalatable. I am speaking strictly from a chemistry point of view.
            Joe
            I thought u were talking about using salt water and vinegar, or each separately, in a sep funnel with Hexane or petroleum ether to polish hash oil…? A chemist friend of mine said it was possible to separate terpenes using vinegar. Know anything about this?

            Thanks

          • You could use salt and pH to prevent emulsion’s between organics and water in a funnel or when making butter. The basic principles are the same.

            I haven’t heard anything about vinegar extracting terpenes. I would find it surprising if it did. Considering its charge it would act similarly to how it does in Italian dressing.

  17. Posted by ohcanada12 on September 15, 2012 at 11:34 AM

    Should the oil reach a certain temperature while cooking for optimum effect?

    Reply

    • Yes, and that makes medibles more complicated than tinctures to control effects.

      Decarboxylation of THCA to THC affects how orally active it is, and conversion of THC to CBN determines how speedy or sedative it is. CBN is the breakdown product of THC and is a sedative.

      If you don’t want it sedative, then you would start with oil that had minimal decarboxylation. Age and the hot oil extraction will have already done a partial decarboxylation, so fresher material and low heat cycling extraction will minimize it.

      THC boils at 157C/315F, so cooking temperatures have to be held below that temperature.

      Cooking temperatures, means the temperature that the interior of the medible reaches when done, not the temperature of the oven.

      Check out our decarboxylation graph for time and temperature curves, but unless you are looking for a sedative effect, decarboxylation at about 122C/252F to 145C/293F is about the maximum that you would want the interior up to.

      http://skunkpharmresearch.com/decarboxylation/

      If you are looking for sedative effect, as the curves show, a lower temperature for a longer period of time will nicely accomplish that goal, because the THC is converted to CBN at close to the same rate that THCA is converted to THC.

      You can also cook the oil beyond the 70% decarboxylation curves on the graphs, even at 252F, and accomplish the same effects. For instance, instead of 27 minutes, cook it 45 minutes.

      A simple Duncan Hines brownie recipe in a 9″ X 9″ pan, calls for 163C/325F to 177C/350F, and 34 to 37 minutes, and that works, but it does produce a sedative product.

      Our baker recommends 375F for less time, and to pull the brownies while the centers are still slightly soft:

      http://www.duncanhines.com/products/brownies/chewy-fudge-premium-brownie-mix

      GW

      Reply

  18. Posted by oh canada on September 14, 2012 at 4:20 PM

    Thanks for all the information that you put up on the website! I’m sure all the people you help are thankful as well. My girlfriend and I followed your recipe to make this using coconut oil and it went fantastic! We will be trying it soon, and making Holy Anointing Oil for my mother with part of it.

    I’m also very interested in your CO2 extraction and of course THC Acetate but I feel that is far beyond my skill level at the moment. There’s so many people who could benefit from all of this.

    Here’s a pic: http://i.imgur.com/bkea9.jpg

    Cheers!

    Reply

  19. Posted by b2k on July 10, 2012 at 1:19 PM

    Have you experimented with timing? Would such a long/repeated heating cycle result in sedating oil? I wonder if referring to the decarb chart would be useful here or if that doesn’t really apply due to the nature of the fat/cannibinoid binding?

    Reply

    • Hot oil extraction definitely makes a more sedative oil than a cold process. Unfortunately the extraction rate of cold oil is exceedingly slow.

      One of the reasons for multiple short heat cycles, instead of one long one, is to reduce the time under the curve. It will be less sedative than oil simply cooked for 12 hours or so.

      Reply

  20. You can also put your bud in cheese cloth and make a tea bag so that when you are done all you have to do is ring out the tea bag but I do not use more than an oz per tea bag.

    Reply

  21. I have all these infused oils in my house! I use them all for cooking and tropical lotion butters. I however do it a bit different when infusing my butter I melt my butter than I let it set back up remove all the white cream you want the better to set but not be hard so to remove all the white cream and liquid. I put all the yellow goodness in a crock pot on low I stir it every hour or so I turn it off at night than back on in the morning and I do this for 3 days. Same with my oils 3 day bake on low tuning off at night. I have never added a second cycle but I add one oz of bud or trim per LB of butter or oil.

    Reply

  22. These presentations are astonishingly.

    Reply

  23. How did the test results come out? Any feedback on potency?

    I plan on doing this process this weekend with coconut oil. Am interested in knowing how potent it could potentially be with one “cycle”. I am wondering if should plan on passing the oil through another batch of fresh material after the initial run.

    Thank you!

    Reply

    • We are still putting together the test panel, but I can tell you how it probably came out, based on past experiments. It is probably about 25% cannabis essential oils, and would increase to about 35% with a second cycle using fresh material.

      While you can mix the essential oils, and the menstruum oils at any ratio, they won’t extract at any ratio, because as it becomes more saturated, it becomes less agressive as a solvent. About 50% would be the maximum if it were done in Heaven.

      That just means that you have to take a larger dose to do the same thing as 100% straight essential oils, and the required dosages are still small. IE: A dropper instead of a drop.

      Reply

    • We have not baked out the products for testing yet. they are refrigerated until use. However, considering health benefits and the fact that coconut oil passes the blood brain barrier. it is certainly my oil choice, at least until testing is complete.

      when our gas chromatography is set up and running, we will have a good idea as to uptake of various cannabinoids, as well as effect. both will be of interest especially in comparison.

      Reply

      • Posted by Walter Nuehring on January 12, 2013 at 4:43 AM

        OK I’ve been reading stuff on this site for quite awhile now and I gotta say you ppl are the shit!! But this topic is something that I felt I am pretty strong in but after reading all comments I feel a little confused. I am a chef by trade & now I’m trying to live out my dream and have become an edible chef now! I too use coconut oil for most of my applications what I do is a co2 extraction to get my hash then to increase potency I decarb it in the oil I carefully get my oil up to 252° using a digital oven thermo & a candy thermometer as soon as it hits the :temp I toss in the hash and immediately pull off burner! I play this game for 30 mins back & forth regulating temp keeping it @ 252 for 30 mins. Then I add ½ oz of strongest clear alcohol I can get then about 2 cups of water. Here in WA everclear is only available in 151 Prof so that’s usually what I get or 100 prof vodka. From my understanding please correct me if I’m wrong but the alcohol is supposed to kinda help transfer THC,CBD/CBN Kinda like a jump start? Force more into the fat itself… the combination of the alcohol & the shock of temp is supposed to work… Does that sound right to you guys? So what has confused me is my method sounds like a hot extraction & your saying that tends to be on the sedative more “medicinal”? So doing a slower lower extraction will leave me with a more heady THC type of buzz? Oh I almost forgot after I strain my oil I put it in fridge and let the water & oil separate I warm up the oil again and add lecithin and mix aggressively. This helps it bind with our cannabinoid receptors in our body’s to absorb more of the good stuff… now I just had my stuff tested and the raw hash tested at 21.3% THC 2.9% CBD 0.0% CBN After it was processed into oil they were 26.1 THC 3.3% CBD 5.1% CBN. SO I achieved high CBD/CBN all because of the heat? If I go slow & low do you think they would be present? Am I wasting or losing anything here?

        Reply

  24. lovely jubbly Graywolf how’d the tests go ?thanks

    Reply

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